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Moller chair identification  

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Hi.alecdavis
(@hi-alecdavis)
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15/06/2021 5:04 am  

I just ordered these chairs (pictured), which I think are Møller 71. However, I’m noticing that most 71’s I see online have a more downward curving upper seatback (though a couple I’ve found are flatter like mine). Can anyone shed some light on the difference? Thanks!

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This topic was modified 4 months ago by Hi.alecdavis

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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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15/06/2021 4:15 pm  

They are not Møller chairs even though they do look good.  


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Hi.alecdavis
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15/06/2021 6:24 pm  

Thanks for your response, Leif. Are you totally sure? I found a few other sites that are selling chairs that look like mine (“flat” backrest top) and also calling them Møller chairs.

https://www.elrecibidor.com/en/products/see/Teak-Dining-Chair-by-Niels-Otto-Moller-for-J.L.-Mllers-6219

https://www.design-mkt.com/100225-set-of-6-vintage-dining-chairs-model-71-by-niels-otto-møller-for-jl-møller-.html

https://www.ztijl.com/mid-century-design/ztijl-archive/moller-dining-chairs-71-rosewood-1960s/


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Hi.alecdavis
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15/06/2021 11:54 pm  

A couple angles of the ones I bought, for comparison.

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Hi.alecdavis
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15/06/2021 11:54 pm  

2/2

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tktoo2
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16/06/2021 7:18 pm  

Going with @leif-ericson on this one. If those are Moller (doubtful), then they are not model 71.


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Kyle Barrett
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16/06/2021 11:30 pm  

I am fairly certain they're produced by Fristho in the style of Møller. What country are you in out of interest, somewhere in Europe I am assuming?


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Hi.alecdavis
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17/06/2021 1:42 am  

Oh, I think you’re right! I found these Fristho ones (linked below) that look exactly like the ones I ordered. I wasn’t familiar with that brand, but I’m hoping to convert them to paper cord seats.

https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/tables/dining-room-sets/fristho-rosewood-dining-set/id-f_23949102/

https://www.vntg.com/151290/set-of-4-vintage-design-dining-chairs-by-fristho-1960s/

I’m actually in the US (as are the chairs).

 


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Hi.alecdavis
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17/06/2021 2:36 am  

Interesting…the first listing below says they were designed by Møller under license by Fristho, and there are a few more that seem to imply the connection (the last link is in Dutch)

https://www.pamono.com/dining-chairs-by-niels-otto-moller-for-fristho-1960s-set-of-4

https://oldnorthinteriors.com/product/mid-century-danish-model-71-n-o-moller-chair-for-jl-moller-1960s/

https://www.vaenonline.nl/language/nl/product/set-eetkamerstoelen-niels-o-moller-j-l-moller-2/

 


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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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17/06/2021 7:17 am  

Just because a bunch of people on the internet say they are Møller does not mean they are Møller. (As has apparently been discovered…).  And if they were produced by Fristho, the fact that some people on the internet say, or imply, they were designed by Møller and produced on license, does not mean that is true.  If it were true, then Fristho did a really bad job of creating a licensed duplicate of a Møller 71, because everywhere you look the shapes are a somewhat wrong even though the appearance from a distance is overall very similar. I know of know evidence that Fristho was so thoroughly incapable of properly copying a Møller 71. This phenomenon combines a mix of the features that usual answer to the description of a knockoff.  


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wesemael
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17/06/2021 1:54 pm  

Well Fristho did produce under licence the moller  and depending on the quality off the foto  out off the fristho book  you can judge for yourself if they did a good job

they also produced the chair in question foto 3 out off the fristho book It is however not described  or listed in the book wich explains the confusion by and off the dealers in the links and the reason i did not reply before. I think it was designed by the fristho team some off  their chars are mentioned as by them in a side text by/at  a foto in the book However there is not a list off all their (fristho team)designs in the book where as the works of paulin/watting/klinger for fristho are completly listed

so kyle is correct and Leif could be correct(ed)

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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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18/06/2021 1:04 am  

Interesting! So which are the Fristho production?  I ask because the first image with two of the side chairs looks very much like Møller 71s and not like the OP’s chairs.  The chairs around the table might be the OP’s chairs….

And it is also interesting that Fristho describes the design as Arne Hovmand Olsen. Early Møller documents also did.  Did Fristho produce only the 71 side chair? Or did Fristho also produce the armchair version?  It might be very useful evidence in that mystery if Fristho only produced the 71 side chair and described it as Arne Hovmand Olsen….

What book is this from?


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wesemael
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18/06/2021 7:24 am  

fristho produced both the top one under licence the bottom one their own production by their own team

i will look for the armchair but have not seen it yet

what do you mean with "OP"

1623993842-fristho-boek.jpg

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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
(@leif-ericson)
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18/06/2021 2:18 pm  

OP is original poster. Sorry for using a jargon term. 

Does it seem strange to you that Fristho would produce a knockoff (the bottom one pictured around the table) and an accurate licensed copy (the top one showing two side chairs)? It does not feel like that makes sense business-wise.  I guess they could have been offered at different times.   It does raise the question for me though, since the documentation is contemporary (published 2014), is there vintage documentation that supports the Arne Hovmand Olsen license?  Catalog, magazine, newspaper, etc?  

And stepping even further back into context the designer owned the copyright, not the maker (except perhaps in certain situations where I have speculated the maker might have purchased the copyright). So Møller would not have had anything do with a hypothetical license deal to Fristho. It would have been Arne Hovmand Olsen’s intellectual property to license.  Now in Møller catalogs the credits for this design is confusing starting with AHO then AHO and NM together, then just NM, chronologically.  I wonder if AHO designed the 71 side chair and NM then added the short armrests to make the 55 armchair?  


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wesemael
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18/06/2021 3:42 pm  

the writers off the ook used a large number  originals catalogues off fristho , their archive  and they are considered to be aqurate knowledgeable its not just a book otherwise i would not use it as reference 

the second chair is not so much a nock- off if you look at other Fristho team (Cor Bontebal ) chairs one off wich resembles de moller 57?)  Frisho and their designers were interestede and inspired? by danish design The chair around the table and the ones below are about the same time as the WB chair (name given by fristho produced 54-64) the HO chair my first photo  Or when you look at other chairs produced by fristho around the same time

for example the known fristho kingenberg or the EJ chair by Cor Bontebal or fristho team  foto in order below  

the text describing the history and the interest in  danish design speaks off licenced by Hovmand Olsen (and in little side text foto licenced by moller) so i take it this is enough precise for you

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