Saturation
There are many reasons why there is some difficulty in the mcm market right now and that is due to saturation of the mcm style. Here in the uk made.com are styling their products according to customers hunger for elegant and simple lines for the furniture which is going to complete a "look".
There is also the issue of saturation in every aspect as several have mentioned. The 9-5 worker that hits carboot sales and small auctions at the weekend and "jockeys" their finds to every dealer in 100 mile radius asking for the kind of price that wright20 get.
The work ethic of this latter "pimp" is to make lots with litte or no effort thanks to,the kind assistance from forums like this or dealers like me who spent hours and large sums buying resource material /catalogues so that i can back up my words with hard copies of manufacturers catalogues/ price lists/ other promotional material.
I can be 100% certain that i will get at least 1 phone call from said pimps to verify, value and ultimately an offer to buy their latests wegner,esk style rareity.
I have spent 20years to date learning and have not learnt all yet but will carry on knowing that a good honest days hard work will be rewarded in the end, even if takes 6 months to sell something which in 2010 could be sold in mere hours.
My old thread came back so I...
My old thread came back so I should probably update.
My MCM sales have leveled out now, definitely not the craze it was 3-4 years ago when I would throw a danish sideboard onto my showroom with a $2500 price tag and have it sell within an hour. I am selling traditional antiques much more now. 70s and 80s modern seems to be on the come up (atleast in my shop).
I will say that anything Eames related is like the plague now. Noone even looks twice at any of my Eames pieces for sale. I have reduced the prices and still, noone takes the bait. I am wondering if people have finally caught on to how shitty Eames designed pieces actually are.
I feel especially sorry for local dealers who launched websites and shops within the last few years that cater specifically to MCM with very specific names like "MIDCENTURY BLANK MOBLER" and now cannot move any of their inventory they just paid 20 Grand to import in a shipping container.
Are the antiques selling any...
Are the antiques selling any better?
At the estate sales I go to it seems like that stuff isn't going home with anyone.
I have always loved 70's stuff and that is what I have sought as I live in a pure 70's condo. I don't know what anyone would be collecting from the 80's. Nagel prints in crappy silver frames? Lol.
Sorry about the Eames stuff. I don't own any of it. I am one of those that never liked it. The primary colors on some of it was interesting, but something about their immaturity is reflected in their pieces...imho. Shelving units looked like erector sets. Everyone who rushed into mid century would want those recliners. Every living room you'd walk into would have an Eames recliner and Noguchi coffee table.
I am perplexed by the lack of interest in the Danish stuff though as I myself can't get enough of it. Well made. Great lines.
I can't imagine we're going back to antiques. And after the 70's (ok, maybe somewhere in the 80's) everything is made in China so there is nothing to collect in furniture unless you're really into DWR reissues.
I know a few people that spen...
I know a few people that spent more than 20k on those containers of furniture from Europe. More like 50k.
At some of those auctions overseas it would be two americans bidding up prices to unbelievable heights while the europeans sat back and watched. It was ridiculous.
Estate sellers in the Denver area are operating like little shops now. One day of 1st Dibs pricing you stupidly stand in line for hours for. I've all but given up on most estate sales unless it's something I really want and know I'm going to pay top dollar for.
And yes...saturation. Let's face it. Most people aren't design snobs. They aren't going to sit on these forums and learn the details of the various points of Eames shell chairs. They just want the look and they'll probably get it from the first place they can now - Crate and Barrel at the mall.
Most people
What do "most people" have to do with it? Most people shop at Wal-Mart too. Most people are not obsessed with design, and thats cool. But its not a problem unless you view design through the lens of "demand" and profit.
Foxy, why do you sell pieces in your shop that you yourself call "shitty designs"?
That does not speak well for you as a shopkeeper. Makes you look like a cynical huckster that hates what he sells, and doesn't value his clients tastes. The best vintage store owners play an educational role. I cringe to think what you are teaching.
Foxy, you should go work for Crate-N- Barrel, where you can really cut loose.
Hmmm
To avoid launching into a flame war over the merits of Eames designs, let's just agree to disagree on that subject... Regarding the market, it could be that the Eames designs have become too commonplace and cliche' in certain geographical areas (California, as an obvious example) and to some extent in general. It is clear that they still remain very much in high demand in Europe and other parts of the world.
Regarding Danish furniture & design, I believe there is still strong interest in the quality pieces. Just look at the last Wright auction results. But the US market is also flooded with crap (thanks to those container importers), and anyone with reasonable taste is not going to be purchasing that.
I agree that contemporary vendors increasing their inventory of "MCM-inspired" products may be impacting the market, but I'm not exactly sure in which direction. The prices of these products are generally comparable or even higher than what you would typically see for a notable vintage item.
Foxxy-I appreciate your input...
Foxxy-I appreciate your input! Ignore the mean things people say.
Woodywood-Not intending to start a war over Eames. Just not my thing. I know they're everyone's darling. Yes, perhaps for me it's just having seen too much of it.
I wondered about the contemporary market again last night. You seem to be hinting at and may be correct... they may ignite interest in some people to pursue the vintage pieces.
I personally think those cases will be rare. It's probably the case that the high prices on places like Craigslist is sending people to Crate and Barrel. Lol.
I was looking over the forums on Ebay and sellers of vintage everything are noticing a slow down. It's not just mid century.
Woody, when you use the term...
Woody, when you use the term "container imports", are you referring to 1) dealers who buy used furniture in Denmark and ship them back to the US for sale with high markups, or 2) new knockoff pieces made in China and imported to the US for sale?
It's been my experience that the imported used generic Danish pieces from the 50's and 60's fall in a category much higher than "crap". Most of it is still better quality than your generic American mid-century furniture from Lane, Broyhill, Kent Coffey, etc.
The issue seems to be that the high markups associated with importing the generic pieces no longer matches as well with what people are willing to pay versus a few years ago. That's not a knock on the piece quality, but rather trying to sell a Toyota for the price of a Mercedes.
cdsilva
"Crap" may be a bit of an overstatement, but I am referring to the "non-designer", later, derivative Danish stuff that probably costs "pennies" over there when purchased second-hand. A lot of it does look quite cheesy when compared to the original designs.
I agree that the look and quality of that stuff is still quite a bit better than the contemporary mass-produced furniture of today (and the faux-Danish American pieces of yesterday).
However, I believe it is generally overpriced and one reason why people may perceive the market as stagnant.
@keewee- Not blaming anyone, just trying to prevent the thread from going off-topic. 🙂
EamesHead,I get it, youre...
EamesHead,
I get it, youre a big fan of the Eames. I am not and never will be a fan. I own a business. I like most of what I sell. Some things I dont particularly care for but sell anyways to meet a demand. 7-8 years ago everyone and their mother would come in asking if I had "one of those cool eames lounge chairs". Despite the fact that I felt vintage 670 lounges and lcw's were ticking shockmount time bombs, they sold like hotcakes out of my shop. Nearly every dealer I interacted with in the area shared my sentiment, that Eames pieces (especially seating) while profitable were still piles of overhyped and overproduced shit. That said, I atleast give the Eames credit for some level of originality, unlike George Nelson or the vast majority of Danish/Scandinavian designers who all seemed to copy each other.
Man, I should get rid of my...
Man, I should get rid of my Eames lounge chair and sell for half of what it's worth and exchange my Noguchi table for some 80's coffee table.
The prices of these mid century furnitures, I mean most of them are still fairly priced after inflation, with exception of the plywood eames and fiberglass shells which were sold way much cheaper when they were made then. But with designer names attached to them I still believe I am giving value to the efforts done by these designers when I pay for them. Just look at it the way the housing bubble happened in America, do not look at these furnitures as investments, I buy these furnitures because I like them and appreciate the designers efforts in creating them. Dealers are the ones who are worried, I'm not a dealer.
I have only been to three imp...
I have only been to three import stores. One in Vancouver, one in Seattle area and one more centrally located.
The guy centrally located was not importing "crap" by any means. In fact, he had the best Danish stuff. Probably too good for the market he has in his town.
The stuff in Vancouver and the west coast, was yes, more generic. I still found it appealing. But the cabinets weren't hard inside with maple. Bottoms generally soft from being overstuffed with items over the years and too much weight going on poor quality wood that wasn't meant to hold that much.
I agree with Foxxy that they copied each other a great deal. Sometimes it's hard to tell a Wegner hutch from something else. That being said...I'd still pay 2-3k for a well made Danish hutch over a cabinet from Room and Board or DWR for twice the price. But thinking you've got to know something about furniture to get that.
Part of the problem is that setting sells. Rents keep getting higher. Customers need a lot of help envisioning pieces in their home. It's hard to stage things in a small store so that they can see how things are going to work. Most women I talk to in my job find Danish too clunky and heavy. On three occasions I've purchased from men who say their new wife/girlfriend is making them get rid of their clunky Danish stuff. All but a few clients want a layered home. They don't want it to look like their grandparents space. Interior designers like Amy Bau do such a good job of layering it up-mixing high end quality pieces into contemporary spaces. If you're having a hard time selling, you might try and achieve more of that look in your store.
For all but the most dedicated of people I work with, I shoot for vintage coffee tables, case pieces, dining chairs and if I'm lucky I find one or two chairs with great lines and convince them it's worth reupholstering. They rarely like the look or expense of sofas or complete bedroom sets. Though they're happy with dressers and night stands.
Demand + Learning curve
Foxy, I am sure that prices for those hideous Eames chairs escalated dramatically in the go-go days a few years back!
And at some point stuff is naturally going to sit longer if the price is going nowhere but straight up. How could it not? In most markets, prices tend to overshoot in BOTH directions. We have already experienced the the too-high phase, and come down a bit, but prices for quality pieces don't seem to be dropping all that much yet, even here in California.
A knock-off market could only have been spawned by 1) prices for vintage that became out of reach for most, 2) outright unavailability of the good stuff, and 3) huge and consistent demand for "the look". So it is amazing that in spite of the huge number of knock-offs on the market, the prices have not come down even more.
All of the MCM knock-offs and the interest in the IKEA and clean lined type stuff could also be seen as just an entry-level on a MASSIVE and world-wide learning curve that could last a very long time. (Perhaps that is what woody is also suggesting?)
I recall that there was a similar "lull" in MCM interest right after the dot-com bust in 2000, and look what happened since then.
I like Eames, but personally...
I like Eames, but personally I thought touche with what was said about Eames.
The ESU was the first or second thing I bought along with an Eames shell (for a disabled family member--it's the best chair for her, I believe, in the world). I loved the humility of the Mondrian-style 4 x 2.
The other reasons were the film The Architect and the Painter and a short video about the Valastro family's set of Eames furniture that moved with them from state to state.
I hope you all never stop posting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnRsehNK7lU
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