I am not a "history" teacher
I teach college level STUDIO classes where people learn to draw, or paint, and develop their skills and point of view as artists. I try to get some excitement going by sometimes setting the assignment against a historical or contemporary parallel or background, so the assignment wont be sterile and "academic", or learned in a vacuum.
The school has art history classes. In studio classes I try to set up an arena of intense exploration and investigation, and do some demos, show a bunch of art, throw out some ideas, and then back off enough for people to have room to develop their OWN understanding- rather than tell them what to think.
Let THEM decide what aspect of the activity makes meaning to them -- be it process, subject matter, ideas, approach, etc...
I see art as one context in which one can explore their own existence. Make their art be about or be a response to any idea or visual phenomena or question that they choose.
You seem to want to give history lessons. Thats fine. You also seem to think that just picking an object is the same thing as painting one, and that you should be considered an artist simply because you noticed something, and that I am somehow closed to that.
Many of your concepts are very basic cliches that are commonly found in the early stages of ANY art school-- very similar to what people in a beginning art classes start to figure out quickly. Like "anything can be art" if looked at in the proper way, blah blah blah...
Seal-coating a driveway is not art. Its a craft. I worked too. Poor me. I painted houses for a living for about 10 years, but I am not sitting here trying to say that was "Art". I took pride in my house-painting, and sometimes it was even more satisfying than art, just to finish a practical project and see it come out well. I put myself through school painting houses with contractors and real estate agents, from the age of 16 to about 26, and was still painting houses for many years off and on, and teaching, to make ends meet, even as I was having major shows in some of the best venues in America.
Mostly, its your tone. It reminds me of me, but even more clueless. If that is possible. You talk as if nobody has ever considered any of your ideas before. I have an excuse for why I come off sounding like a pompous ass. Whats yours?
I have taught for way too long. And I get so used to delivering things a certain way that Im sure I come off just as bad as you do most of the time. Teaching mutates you into something else. Its not a natural state to be in and you eventually make assumptions about what is known and not known. And it gets ingrained in your tone.
Lastly...
You are a history buff. Cool.
You are not Andy Warhol.
HE taught YOU to look at things this way. What did you add to this concept except to pile up more stuff?
He did the heavy lifting. Thats why he is called an artist and you are called a collector and history buff.
He was "research" and you are strictly "product development".
$$$$$$$$
YouTube is closer to Warhol than you are. (basically his idea)
Its free by the way.
ogd
The anecdote that you last described is merely another illustration of how your primary motivation for buying (aka your main reason for "liking") an object is its potential profitability, rather than its artistic or design value. As I said before, that is certainly fine, just have the willingness to admit it and I think folks here will be a bit more receptive.
Also, why aren't you a multi-millionaire by now? Or maybe you are (I seem to recall you mentioning that in another thread).... 🙂
Touche EH...
I can't argue with a man that also calls himself clueless... I'm sorry for arguing with you. I should be respecting my elders, so for that I apologize. You're right about making assumptions. It does get engrained, that's why I take it all in openly, without prejudice, then sort through it afterwards. I am clueless, in a sense. Not clueless after I learn it. But I'm def. taking life how it plays out, not booking it first, then taking it. I read my history like a blind man reads braille. Hands on. I want to be out there turning over boxes, and rummaging to learn it first hand.
I guess I just see it all as art, making it, owning it, dealing it. I don't have the time to differentiate it all into small secular groups. It's easier for me to just take it in all forms, because to be honest, I do take the good with the bad. It's not always spray sculptures, and rare museum items, or Monet's. But I love all of the small stuff too like little children, and when you've sold 800 items or more, you see that the picture I showed you of my stuff in that one room is very temporary, and shouldn't set the bar for what I've dealt in, up to, and after that.
It made me upset that you judged me by a select few photos of items in a corner of one room, because I was trying to show you what I was up against as one person, and why I needed help with a company, instead of seeing the talent it takes to spot all that, and the other 800 things with no training. That's why I showed you photos of great items that you couldn't tell me was dumpy, or swag, or niche. You almost didn't want to comment, cause you thought I was trying to trap you. But I wanted you to see that I'm not just peddling Sanford and Son style.
I've been an artist my whole life. I drew comics for a while, then designed, then made pottery, then sculpted. I gave it all up to seal, because that's my family business, but I didn't just seal average driveways. I took on giant intricate driveways for multi-million dollar homes, that great sealcoaters were scared to touch. Sealcoating is nothing like painting a house. It's like painting around a Warhol face, without getting a drop over, that you can't touch up, paint over to fix the problem, or wipe off. No masking either...ever. It's about cutting flawless lines, and making perfect edges, with no help. There is no thinner. Your dealing with a giant glob of it on a driveway under your feet, with brick, stone, glass, and wood on each side. It's creating art, and the driveway is the canvas.
...
There's no time to mask, and if you get one drop on anything other than the asphalt, by the time you grab a rag, it's already dried, and is stuck there for life. You can cause multiple thousand dollars of damage to someone's property in no time flat, if you're head isn't 120% in what's going on right in front of your eyes at that very exact moment. You're working under 100 psi too, with a hundred feet of hose, that could blow any time, and the sealer is drying under the heat of the sun "right now", as you pour it out, and it's got to be in place in under a few seconds. The sealer isn't just under pressure, you are. I do intricate cut work all day long with squeegees, brooms that I use like paint brushes while standing, and a whole assortment of small to tiny brushes to do the most detailed spots around pillars, foundation, bricks, concrete, garage doors, curbs, cars, fence slats, fountains, 18th c driveway sculptures that can't be moved, etc...
Sealcoating may not be an art for someone who dumps out a bucket, and slops it on with a mop, but it is for any man that can cut a perfect precisison line down 200 feet of flush scalloped brick, on both sides with no masking, in a time crunch, when the driveway is shaped like a jungle gym, and you have to do it 2-4 times a day for 30 years flawlessly. Or run a perfect dividing line between two lots 500 ft w/o getting a drop on the other side, while they're watching. It's not even in the same ball field as painting a house. It's not just an art, it's a precision art. I deal with some of the most intricate configuration of driveways, and lots a man could encounter. Hey, don't take my word for it. Come seal with me once, and see. Afterwards, I think you'll rethink your assumption. Ask a painter that's done some driveways. They'll tell you they'll take painting any day, gladly over sealcoating. Sealer is very sloppy, and messy. Seacoating trucks will normally have it sloshed all over the sides of the tanks, equipment, vehicles, men. I drive a 2001 white silverado 3500, that looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. That's how meticulous I am. Here I am getting sealer in St. Louis.
Usually, I remain impartial...
Usually, I remain impartial in the forum. But, art is my territory, so it's impossible for me to resist. 😉
As an artist, I must say that I agree with EamesHead 300%. Art is certainly not in the eyes of the buyers. Art doesn't have decorative or commercial purpose. Real art is way beyond this and yes, it takes time and knowledge to be able to appreciate it.
Of course, since Marcel Duchamp, anything can become Art if an artist decides so (and if his/her artistic process is consistent). This is COMPLETELY different than to say that "every fancy item" is Art!
I don't have the time to develop this now. Anyway it's useless because EamesHead has better explained my point of vue than I, with my basic English.
Woody
One time I hired two guys to come work with me sealing. I left them on the job, while I went out to hustle up some more work. The driveway was for a house that was showing the following morning for sale. When I got back, the men had sealed themselves in the driveway, and drove through the wet sealer, over the yard, over the sidewalk, and down the curb. To make things worse, they slopped 5 giant blobs of sealer on the customers brand new white vinyl clad garage door, that I couldn't remove, without staining it. I had to buy a brand new garage door, and pressure wash the sidewalk with a powerful chemical to try, and remove the sealer.
It was a nightmare. I was so angry. I fired them on the spot, and drove them straight home, and never hired anyone again. I've had a couple helpers, but they care more about texting, staring in a tree, taking smoke breaks, lunch breaks, bathroom breaks, and whatever they can do to not work. Once they get a check, they go get wasted on it, and never show up for work until they're broke again. It's not easy trying to be an entrepreneur on your own, knocking doors for business, with no finance help, parental help or guidance, credit cards, or $0 family money coming from anyone.
That's why I can't get ahead. On top of that, when I do ebay, I'm also doing the office work of 4 or 5 people at once, plus still trying to be the buyer. It's very, very difficult. I have to smoke, just to keep from losing it. Like Jude trying to carry the whole world on his shoulders. Plus I take care of my mother, my other mother, family, strangers, and volunteer at local charities, like the food bank. How can one man do that all. I can't, but I still try.
Woody...
"The anecdote that you last described is merely another illustration of how your primary motivation for buying (aka your main reason for "liking") an object is its potential profitability, rather than its artistic or design value. As I said before, that is certainly fine, just have the willingness to admit it and I think folks here will be a bit more receptive."
I would agree if that were the case. If I bought everything on potential profitability, I would take a van down to the flea market, and fill it full to the brim with whatever I could cram in, and then dump it on the net. I would never know what any of this stuff ever was, if I didn't see the artistic value first. I leave hundreds of things behind every week, that doesn't reach out and grab me. I've probably passed up thousands of dollars, because I didn't see the artistic or design value in an object. I don't understand why you can't see that. I don't know the profit of 80% of the stuff I buy until I get home, and research it "after" I bought it "for" the artistic and design value. Of all the things I've ever sold, I've only sold the same thing a handful of times. I've sold 800 totally different items, so how can I buy on the profit margin of something that's brand new to me every week?
Also, why aren't you a multi-millionaire by now? Or maybe you are (I seem to recall you mentioning that in another thread).... 🙂
I've been stuck working by myself my whole life. It's like trying to run a big restaurant, with 24 full tables, and you're the server, chef, bartender, dishwasher, busboy, and cleanup crew. And still run another company on the side. It's hard for any one man to do successfully. I can't get reliable, trustworthy help. I end up having to babysit, instead of working. I get very frustrated with people who have no common sense. I end up spending more time watching them, than working.
Patrick...
Art is a diverse range of human activities and the products of those activities. focusing here primarily on the visual arts, which includes the creation of images or objects in fields including painting, sculpture, printmaking, photography, and other visual media. Music, theatre, film, dance, and other performing arts, as well as literature, and other media such as interactive media are included in a broader definition of art or the arts.
Until the 17th century, art referred to any skill or mastery and was not differentiated from crafts or sciences, but in modern usage the fine arts, where aesthetic considerations are paramount, are distinguished from acquired skills in general, and the decorative or applied arts.
Paulanna
Yes it is. Here's the Antiques Roadshow link of it. Argue that with her.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200903A01.html
I take care of my Mother
And an 88 year old woman, plus help out two nephews, two smaller brothers, and work at the food bank, plus donate, and help during all the holidays.
I don't know how much more clear I can be Woody. I've spelled out my entire life here for you guys, to show you where I came from, who I am, and what I think, and how I operate. I convey it very clearly, just not as fancy. I've had to repeat myself to you several times on why I buy, yet as soon as I say it, you tell me again that it's for another reason, forcing me to repeat myself again, and again, and again. Not to be mean, but if you can't process the clear simple english I write, then you're the one who's not taking in my thoughts clearly.
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