Alphaville clocks & LRF
Of all the Alphaville clock I saw(in person), the Turbine was the only one that didn't look good. Try calling allworldfurniture.com, I think they are cheaper.
LRF:
You can have your shipper pick-up your clocks from White on White. I ordered a pair of Saarinen Tulip style chairs and they quoted my somewhere around $300 to ship, I had Fedex pick the up and it ran around $80.
Heres the deal
I grow frustrated with the knock-off issue for a lot of reasons, and the more I delve into it the more it just makes sense to buy an authentic piece.
Vitra's Sunburst clock costs 340, while the knockoff costs 125. LRF states that he doesn't understand why Vitra can't produce the clock for the same price. Here are some thoughts:
Vitra is a German company, that pays its workers living wages. That is, its workers make enough to have a comfortable 1st World living - with a house, a car, etc. Vitra also is concentrated on preserving design, and on preserving the environment. They use recycled and recyclable materials wherever possible, and modify their packaging to reduce waste. They clearly have a conscience about design, their place in the environment, and the health and well being of their workers. Having a conscience about these things means doing things the right way - not the cheapest.
The knock-off clock from White comes from China. China employs hundreds of thousands of workers in industrial city complexes, pays them $1 a day, and violates their human rights (freedom of press? unions? healthcare?). While doing this China is spewing poison and waste into the environment without regard for the consequences. China has also, notably, sent poisoned toys, toothpaste, and petfood to the US. Clearly, the main drive behind Chinese knock-off products is money and industrial clout, which means doing things as cheaply as possible.
If all things were equal both clocks would cost the same. But - very clearly - all things are not equal. So if money is all that you're worried about- not quality, or authorship, or 'design', or the environment, or the dignity and quality workers are treated with - then go for the knock-off.
http://hrw.org/englishwr2k7/docs/2007/01/11/china14867.htm
Totally right, Lucifer, but
Criminey, why can't the Vitra's of the world ever have a sale?
When was the last time that Fritz Hansen or Cassina had a 1 week 25% sale?....how about never?
Herman Miller and Knoll each have their annual 10% off sale, and they act that they're doing us all a favor.
Some of these companies, while they rely on us MCM consumers, they seldom come down from their lofty perch.
I'm not in favor of knockoffs EXCEPT for when the legimate version is NOT being produced.
But, heck, it's hard to not want to save a little money sometimes.
I agree with Barry on thi...
I agree with Barry on this one ~ I hate to buy knockoff furniture but when i can save 200 on the same clock that not even the most expert can tell the difference. I want to know what is wrong with that.
I can not agree more with Lucifersum we all know how bad the Chinese are,
I will hope the kids or grandkids will not nibble on it the clock for lead poisen , but I just think Vitra is wrong!!!!!!! they seem to get us by the throat all the time like every one who collects or buys MCM is rich and dumb , we will gig them good ,
I manufacture and redo chairs, since I am the only one who appears to be re doing the shell chair, I guess I could gig everyone that sends me a chair to redo , I could hit them real hard cause they want to redo a great chair and preserve it for the future, make them pay extra maybe just cause it is from the midcentury and really in vogue right now,
What do you think is that a great idea?????
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!
I make a fair profit. Pay my guys a good wage, and treat my customers with utmost respect, and they write nice things about me that any one can read on the Internet, I have all the business that one needs for a little start up company it has been great,
I am no multi national company but why can't other companies be fair with us folks who like this stuff
I hate to say I cringe and hold my breath when i have to buy something from China, praying that it will be decent, but the only way to fight them is for the big companies to be fair with us the customers and not hit us between the eyes just cause we like something,
I am sure some of you agree with what I say.
ONE MORE THING .... I ...
ONE MORE THING .... I hate to say it .. we have all been crying about this subject since this forum started,
It is nice that the core group agrees that we do get ripped off every time we want to buy something great from these companies,
I just wish that someone heard us, It does become frustrating that we have to be such
cry babies, shame no one listens,
LRF: aren't these companies greedy?
It's so frustrating that high-end, qualiuty companies like Herman Miller, Fritz Hansen, Cassina, Vitra, Knoll, etc., price-point their products not only based on manufacturing costs and royality payments, but HOW MUCH THEY CAN MAKE AN ITEM UP TO GIVE IT EXCLUSIVITY.
Of all the companies, Herman Miller are probably the most reasonably priced, but none of them care one iota about giving their customers much of a break.
Hardly any sales. Hardly any promotions. Little or no after-the-sale support.
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Also, take the Grasshopper Chair (you know, my favorite lounge).
Knoll dumped it years ago and Modernica has taken up making it. God knows where Modernica gets it made, but if I couldn't find an antique Knoll original (which I did), you bet your sweet bippy that I would've bought it from Modernica.
My way of doing it....is to buy my stuff on eBay and get it fixed, if need be.
I have bought very few items new.
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I'm in a quandry because now I need a nice sofa, and finding a used sofa and getting it delivered ain't easy. And I won't pay for the Eames Sofa that I really want.
i hear you Barry,
I ...
i hear you Barry,
I have bought over 50 thousand dollars worth of great stuff on Ebay,
I have a account with Hermna miller cause they were nice enough to open an account cause of my business and the need to buy parts from them, with out a minimum order, and that includes the furniture , you can say any thing just like me about any of these companies but HM ia a world class company and think of there customer first, on that note if you want , any think from Herman miller
I think I can order any thing for you at decent savings, and ship it to your front door,
I have bought lots from them for my house, the rest on ebay and recovered it all, and I know I saved a lot of money , and it is all vintage,
no reason the Egg chair should be $6000 from Fitz Hansen when the knock off kings make it for 800. something is not right,
I paid 1500 shot looking, and it cost 800 with fabric to redo it $2300, total vs$6500 and same fabric, with shipping, and best of all it is Fritz Hansen not Chinese crap!
/www.mojointeriors.co.uk/uk/eye-clock-p-468.html
i checked this site out and they sell the clock for
69 pound sterling that would be `142.00 US dollar
that appears to be a very good price for that clock
Vitra sells it for 350. US and White on White sell it for 150.00 so that seems to be a great deal maybe someone from Britain can tell us if that is considered a good price in light of the way the dollar is now.
LRF thats the clock I...
LRF thats the clock I bought, as I said it's nice quality. I haven't had a chance to hang it yet but will post some images once I do. I guess shipping is the only issue for you, in the UK we get heavily stung on shipping costs so I would check with them to see how much this would be?
Okay then...money IS all you care about.
Okay then...so it appears that money IS the only thing you guys care about. After making a quick concession that the Chinese are bad LRF goes on to talk about how greedy the big companies are, how he likes to save money, and how he CAN save money by buying a knockoff...apparently regardless of whatever other casualties happen in the production of that knockoff.
I dont think that prices for some of these pieces are that outrageous when you consider the lifespan of the piece. A saarinen table, for example, costs what?...$1500 for a 46"? My laptop costs the same amount of money, and will be obsolete in 3 years. Will the table be obsolete? Since a lot of people are still using the tables their grandparents bought, I doubt it.
I happily saved up for a few months to have enough extra cash to buy my authentic Nelson sunburst clock. And I'll love it, and take care of it, and have it for a lotta years. And the whole time I'll know that its an authentic piece.
Lucifer...you don't see the point.
In life, there's black and white and also grey in the middle.
Perhaps you're one of these either/or black or white only people who don't see the grey area in the middle.
I believe that LRF and myself are people who see this middle ground, and I get the sense you don't.
A strong argument COULD be made that it's almost as dishonest to the manufacturers to buy a used item on eBay than it would be to buy a Chinese knockoff.
For me, buying a clock for the wall is more decorative than essential, so I'm more likely to buy a knockoff. When it comes to proper furniture, I'll stick with the originals....EXCEPT when I want something that's no longer available from the real manufacturers.
I hope this serves to clarify my position and hopefully it's something you can life with.
Barry, your pretty much...
Barry, your pretty much speaking from my mind there. I would never dream of buying a knock off item of furniture, or even 'new', I only tend to buy vintage. However, a clock, and even more so, it being placed in a small corner of the house doesn't justify the Vitra price tag. Now the watch on my wrist is a different matter!
Grey
First off: it is indeed a murky area in the middle, made especially cloudier by those things we use to rationalize decision making. For example, you say that you'll only buy an authentic piece - as long as its furniture; clocks and decorations are somehow different. LRF admits that the Chinese are pretty awful on human rights - but is still willing to buy their products because it saves money. Its all about where you draw the line.
Personally I see a very clear line drawn between the atrocities committed in the name of 'economic growth' in China and my wallet. If you showed me proof that Vitra was engaging in the same sort or rights violations I wouldn't buy their products. I guess for me other things are more important than the end result of owning a product - even an 'affordable' product.
Secondly, there is no argument at all about buying authentic products secondhand. It only reinforces the notion that authentic products are better made and have a longer lifespan. That sort of reputation is what allows the HM & Co to charger higher prices in the first place. Imagine if IKEA tried to charge high prices for crap that fell apart?
LuciferSum
it seems barry nick and i all see one way you see the other , no need to try to change your mind, or get nasty, both barry and nick and my self, all want vintage original furniture in our homes and don't want to chinese/knockoff our homes out, BUT to save 200. bucks on a clock that is going on a wall that is a dead ringer,
i just don't think when the society for the preservation of only original mid century antiquities come over for tea,
I will still be in good standing and not be black balled cause of my transgression.
So yes Lucifersum, it is just the money !! plain and simple and we are all a bunch of stupid, greedy, bad people, called that word, I believe it is HUMAN, who choose to have a lovely knock off on our wall rather save our money then have a authentic clock from Vitra that in 10 years will be worth the same price, than see Vitra get and extra $200.00
I guess we have our principles too.
Who knows maybe these clocks are made down the street were you live, would that make it any better?
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