For those of us who are unfam...
For those of us who are unfamiliar with woodworking, I think there's a natural tendency to fear catastrophic outcome in case we use the wrong products or techniques. That's why we have never-ending questions =) And I really appreciate those who tirelessly share their valuable experience and knowledge.
Like Solange, I've tried using the Howard Bee Wax Restore a Finish before on a separate set and it did give the panels a very good finish. I figured since the wood panels were supposed to be oiled instead of waxed, that's why I wanted to get you guys' take on it.
kin1117
Howard's Feed n wax and Restore-a-finish are two different products.
I think the feed n' wax is the more innocuous of the two, with very subtle results...and what seems like very little wax in the formula at all, the other one seems far more robust!
I have only used the former... good to know you've had positive results with the latter.
Eames Lounge Chair Panels
well, thanks for the feedback all. Its true that for some of us who aren't expert in woodworking, doing something irreversible to this iconic chair will make me sleepless for nights, that's why I'm asking. True, I may be overthinking it, but I'm sure at one point you guys did overthought this process too. And unbeknownst to you all but I have done some furniture stains in the past on small furnitures, but definitely not to this caliber.
@tktoo - thanks for the do not use it warning, I did read on the label and it did said oil-based stain. Got it. Wont use that. Now on the Watco Brand there are several options, there's Teak Oil, Danish Oil (Dark Walnut, Natural, Cherry and Golden Oak) and Rejuvenating Oil.
I figured I should get Teak Oil or Danish (Natural).
And forgive me if I'm being specific - I just need everybody's valuable experience its because, like what kin1117 said, and I quote, "... there's a natural tendency to fear catastrophic outcome in case we use the wrong products or techniques. That's why we have never-ending questions ..." I'm anxious to perform this process.
See link below for my chair pics on Flickr and can anybody tell me what year this guy is?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95726760@N05/with/8738524775/#photo_8738524775
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95726760@N05/with/8738524775/#photo_8738524775
Other than pre 71, it's...
Other than pre 71, it's really hard to say. Give us more info or pix like the medallion, number of arm rest screws, type of cushion filling, etc. Nonetheless, unless its stamped somewhere, we can only estimate production periods.
I remember each and every time I got a new set, the excitement of guessing the production year and the story behind it. That's certainly part of the fun of collecting. I feel your fun!!!
Now I just noticed the link and saw the black round medallion, and it looks like there's quite a bit of sinking on the seat cushion too, so I'd assume its 100% down/feathers. I'd say it's from the early or mid 60's? I believe they used the black and white round medallions interchamgeably in the 60's and for yours to have all down/feathers, it's from the era before they switched to 50% foam and 50% down which I think was mid 60's. That's just my guess.
see that link on the bottom of the pics
I have that link on the bottom of the last picture to my Flickr photostream. So, there are 2 screws on the bottom of the armrest and stamps on the bottom of the lounge. I guess I should open the cushions huh. I can do that tonight. Just a stop at Home Depot to return this stupid oil stain that I purchase last night and get a Watco.
I'm still unsure if I should get a Teak Oil or Danish Oil, but will decide later - or maybe just buy both and apply and see the difference tomorrow.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95726760@N05/
Just a friendly reminder, if...
Just a friendly reminder, if and when you do decide to open the zippers, be very careful because they're 50 yr old zippers and can be quite prone to damage. For the purpose of identifying the cushion filling, I'd say you can leave it alone because I'm pretty sure it's all down and feathers based on the shape of the cushions. Have fun and treasure this beauty!!
Well, Loft, first off, congratulations.
Your chair appears worth saving. I can't help much dating it, but it has the earlier angular arm pads that I prefer. I think those disappeared around the same time HM switched over to the spring-type cushion clips.
As for the panels, they look a bit faded and dry, eh? You said you have disassembled the components. How does the rosewood look under the mounts? Brand-spanking new, I'd guess. That's the look you're after, but fading caused by UV exposure is, unfortunately, permanent. Oil will help, but it won't restore the original color. Pros will often use specialized dyes for this with sometimes surprising results... and sometimes surprising not in a good way.
Now is the time to deal with any shock mount issues, too, but you know that already.
Watco and most all "Danish" oil finishes are slight variations on a basic age-old formula of solvent, linseed oil, and resins. Technically, the addition of resin makes them "wiping varnishes" in today's parlance. Some versions contain "proprietary" additives like tung oil, pigments, UV inhibitors, drying agents, fungicides, etc. This accounts for the Watco variants, but, for our intents, they're interchangeable. I use basic Watco indoor "natural" and sometimes add my own ingredients to that.
The white-ish residue visible in the grain on your back panels is probably old oxidized finish (oil) and/or wax. I'd try VM&P naphtha and a toothbrush on that. Those open pores are typical of the rosewood veneers on these sets and are what make me hesitant to use steel wool. The thought of tiny filaments of metal getting caught in there and breaking off just gives me the willies (talk about overthinking it). It's why I recommend sandpaper instead.
One great thing about oil finishes is that they are so incredibly forgiving and easy to repair. The reason for this is that they are microscopically thin. The only real problems occur when they are improperly applied and that usually means too thickly. Avoid using leftover partial containers of gooey product of undetermined vintage. Fresh is best. Here's the basic technique:
Sand rough areas and clean all surfaces with mineral spirits or naphtha by rubbing with a wetted rag - I like linen for this step and white is good because it shows any grime or other residue that comes off.
Make any repairs and sand and clean up those.
Work in a not-too-warm, well-ventilated, dry area out of direct sunlight.
Apply oil to entire surface using a saturated lint-free cotton rag - old T-shirts are good. Keep all areas wet for 15-20 minutes.
Wipe it all off with clean, dry cotton rags by rubbing with the grain. Really, rub it all off.
Inspect every 15-20 minutes and rub off any oil that oozes out of the pores until it stops.
Let dry overnight. Very lightly sand any rough areas with 400 grit, wipe with a rag dampened with mineral spirits, let dry, and apply another coat of oil following the same procedure.
Congrats, Part deux:
One feature of vintage ES670/671 sets that I like to see is that mellow darkened color along the edges of the panels. If you've got rough dings and veneer losses to the front edge of the seat panel and otto, you'll want to repair and/or sand those areas to prevent catching clothing and causing further damage. Sanding will expose fresh wood that will appear lighter in color. This is one situation where I might recommend using a stain to even out the color after all is said and done. One trick is to mix a little oil-based stain in with a bit of oil finish and apply it just along the edge with a Q-Tip or artist's brush. Let it dry a couple of days and reapply a stronger solution if too pale, or sand it off and adjust the mix if too dark. Oil will be absorbed by freshly-sanded end grain darkening it somewhat, too, so light-handed experimentation here is the way to go.
Two or three applications are all that is necessary. After a curing period of a few days you can burnish all with balled linen and then paste wax if you want. IME, it won't add much, if any, in the way of sheen, but helps protect from fingerprints and dust.
Be sure to follow safety precautions by using gloves, good ventilation, and proper disposal of oily rags. I burn them right away in an old metal waste bin outside, but you can safely spread them out or hang them in the sun to dry.
It all sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. It's mostly foolproof, worthwhile fun.
you have my gratitude ... kin1117 + tktoo
first off, thank you for responding promptly. I'm just cleaning my Noguchi table when I saw your post. Thank you for taking the time typing up a great walk thru of the process. I did figure that's how I'm gonna be doing it, however, you just made a well deserved page to preserve for future readers that may do some research once they find this beauty. The panels did have some crevices between the grains of the back panel, a friend once told me that Rosewood does have them due to age. I was leaning towards not using steel wool and I thought of what you said about the fibers getting stuck between the grains and overtime may oxidized and rust. I haven't taken off the clips as I just removed the panels Sunday night and due to day job and the fact that the chair is in my mums house that is 15 miles away from my loft so its just a little uneasy, so my project continues tonight. I see what you meant to take off and mimic that finish under the clips.
One thing I missed to mention and it doesn't show on the pics is that, I accidentally put a tape on the arm pads and yes, as soon as I realized that its a mistake some leather went on the tape ... that's a dumb move.
I'm ordering new cushions though from Herman Miller (pretty pricey) and hopefully it fits exactly to the original clips. I should post on the cushion thread later, but has anyone done that yet? New cushions to old panels? Does it fit?
Uh... for $2K, they ought to fit like a glove.
Watch a pro do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGGrudSHu0c
My thought is that, except fo...
My thought is that, except for the seat and one arm rest along with a couple of missing buttons, the rest of the cushions look to be in relatively good shape. The thing about getting a new set of cushions is that you'll definitely get them brand new and I'm certain they'll be able to custom make them to fit with the round clips. Having said that I believe the cost of that will probably be close to getting a brand new chair, especially if you're replacing the arm rests as well.
There're people who value vintage pieces and there're people who like brand new furniture. With your new find, if you decide to go with new cushions, I'm afraid, for one, that it doesn't make too much sense economically; for another, it leaves the set being half vintage and half new.
I don't know if it's feasible, but have you bought it to a leather upholsterer to see if it's salvageable? If it is, then you can keep the original character of the set. Of course, what I'm saying is only food for thought. Good luck and keep us posted!
3 Panels Sanded ... Eames Lounge Chair
Upper, mid back and lounge panel sanded ... Used 320 sandpaper, up/down stroke with the grain. Its relatively easy, I'm just anal so I made sure that even the edges are sanded. These panels are the only parts of the chair that shows age (with exception of the cushions - will get back to this one later). I think it took me just about 2 hours to work of these panels - that includes 2 break times 🙂
As for the cushions, I spoke with some leather masters here in my area, San Francisco and found one that they had done some upholstery - I was quoted a hefty $1200 - $1300 and thought that was a bit too much considering that this chair the cushions are small, but I'm sure these guys knows that they need to come just below the actual cost of the leather to get the job. What I did was I smooth talked one of the Herman Miller dealer here in my neighborhood and I arrange something with him to only pay $1900 for the new cushions - with choices on Austrian HM Leather and MCL Leather + many other leathers for the same price. I figured, if that's how much it will cost me to get new authentic Herman Miller cushions then so be it. But you guys made a good point, its halfway modern and halfway vintage ... Now it's gonna made me re-evaluate this through. Oh! And I thought you guys told me not to overthink this LOL.
But, again on another thought, maybe I should pay the leather upholsterer a visit to see if my leather is salvageable. Good one - to do list over the weekend.
Well, its past midnight so the staining and the ottoman sanding will be continued the day after tomorrow.
Looking good!
Hi Loftguy
ive been watching this post closely as i am at the same stage as you - sanding that is. Ive been doing 2 hours a night for a week, but i have many scratches to remove. sorry i dont have much advise for you just all the same questions!
Only This. Run you fingers over the wood panels, they feel smooth after 320 grit paper, then sand with 400 then 800 and it amazing the difference and how rough the 320 finish now feels.
I have already bought Light Boiled Linseed Oil and thinking maybe i wont use it - ill check out the Watco Oils first
BTW id kill for your cushions - let me know if you want to off load
Nice work, Loftguy! This mayb...
Nice work, Loftguy! This maybe a dumb question, but you plan on oiling the inside of the panels too? I'm just curious.
I'd like to share another observation. I noticed that shock mounts on your lower back panel don't seem to align with each other at all. Is that just the angle of the photo or is that indeed the case? I've spoken with a restorer in the past about such misalignment issue by Herman Miller that we sometimes would see shock mounts so out of place that I question whether it would create premature shock mount failure due to the imbalanced distribution of weight. As for your chair, if it's held up for 50 yrs already and seem to still hold strong, it probably isn't an issue.
So I'm obviously not working on the chair right now ..
So I'm obviously not working on the chair right now due to some appointment issues with my work. But I do constantly check the posts here. So Stewy, I'm glad that you're doing the same work as I'm doing so good luck on that. I'm also doing some 400 and possibly 800 sanding - have some at home but will do that after the first oil application. I havent applied the Watco I purchase but will do so this weekend.
Kin1117 - I didn't realized it was off angle, it may have been just the picture. I'm pretty sure that its pretty even before I remove the panels, didn't realize that. Yes, I will be putting in natural oil inside the panels and leaning towards mixing 50 - 50 natural with medium walnut to have a little darker on the panels.
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