Hello,
I'd like to know if someone can tell me if the dinning room set we just purchased is originally from 1960's or where exactly was produced. I've talked to people at Knoll NY looking for information, but I only got very little details about the chairs/tables.
The four chairs have embedded the code BR 51 on the bottom of the base, which is aluminum and they have plastic pads glued on to the rim and around it. When you remove the seat, the center of them is black, with several square like knobs sticking out from the round metal part. There is a small orifice in the center as well. The chairs are all identical, but two have the labels that reads "Knoll associates" and the other two have "Knoll international" which is a little confusing. The labels are identical except for the word Associates and International
The color of the chairs/table-base is this putty-gray-green tone, which we have not seen on the internet. The seller told us that this was Eero Saarien's favorite color.
The base of the table is cast iron, very heavy attached to a white round wood piece where the six screws are. Which by the way, are hardened steel. They just look different and feel heavier than a regular screw would. The table top is teak wood veneer and has a thin rounded wood edge. Below the edge is a 2" particle board bevel and then the bottom of the table is teak veneer.
And finally the original cushions have authentic Knoll tags but there is no date stamped on them, like you normally see.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Arturo
If original, shouldn't they have the big K label?
I believe that in 1956 when this wonderful Saarinen stuff was introduced, they were using the label with the big K. Those labels you show are from, I believe are from the 1960's or possibily, the early 1970's. The address of 320 Park Avenue was used after 1961. But they moved to 745 Fifth Avenue in 1970.
Knoll Associates became Knoll International in 1969.
However, I doubt that they went around the country to change labels on already manufactured pieces, so when they were actually SOLD is difficult to be sure based on the labels.
Dating Herman Miller pieces is a bit easier.
Confusing, isn't it?
Inquiring minds want to know...
If you don't mind my asking,how much did this set cost? Obviously you had some doubt as to its authenticity,so did you get it for a song? Also how about posting some photos of the entire set,instead of just label closeups.Maybe some pics showing that marvelous teak top.Looks like a beauty from what little I can see!
The BR 51
authenticates it as Knoll.
Seriously, don't get too hung up on the labels, just enjoy the set, it's beautiful. The labels get put on by a production worker right after the last quality check and before the piece gets packed. It could simply be someone at a station having an older box of labels, or finishing an old box then opening a new one with the new name.
Further to eBayers
It's not uncommon to see these labels pop-up on eBay. I have unfortunately seen some unscrupulous dealers re-use these labels on vintage knock-off tulip chairs. I strongly suggest looking for the die-cast BR 51 mark, rather than the label, when shopping for authentic tulips.
Thanks for the input...
Thanks for the input guys. I'm not really doubting whether or not the set is Knoll.... it's too beautiful and well made and perfect not to be.... I was just hoping for any help dating it and explaining the different labels... I guess the set might be from 1969 when they were changing their name. Also, has anyone ever seen the greenish putty color before, or chair labels with no date stamp? I'm wondering if it's a one-off that an employee took home or something because I bought it very near Jamestown, NY where I think they were made. Here are some pictures of the whole set together! We got it for under $2000 which I consider a steal!
I just found a set on eBay that are the exact same color as ours that say 1969 and describe the color as special order, but they are armchairs with stools.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-Eero-Saarinen-Knoll-Swivel-Arm-Shell-
Chairs_W0QQitemZ250187555460QQihZ015QQ
Arturo....greenish color
From the get-go, you could order these chairs with any fabric that Knoll was offering, and I'm also certain that for an interior installation, the client couldive worked with the designer and Knoll to use whatever fabric they might've wanted.
I can even imagine that if an independent designer worked with a large client and bought Knoll or Herman Miller furniture, they could also order fabric from the other company for upholstery.....it all came down to the size of the installation and importance of the client.
You can bet your bottom dollar at if, say, Hugh Hefner wanted Saarinen furniture for his office with Alexander Girard fabric, it could've been done. All the designer had to do was to place the order for the furniture from Knoll and say "we're providing out own fabric...how many yards do we need?" and then call up Herman Miller and order the fabric.
a question for the crowd...
just a question based on your description in the initial post.
i have been under the impression that the knoll tulip bases were made of cast aluminum, yet you mention your set being produced of cast iron. am i mistaken? were there different production materials used during different times? please fill in the gap for me.
thanks!
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