I am
all with you on leaving things original. These just look a little beyond wiping down. You can't leave everything original regardless of condition, under some circumstances. I'm sorry.
If there's significant paint loss, and the rust is beyond superficial, and they'll be outside at some point, and she doesn't want rust dust all over her, and her friends clothes for generations to come, and wants them to look pretty and not get worse over the next 20 or 30 years, and have something nice to leave to someone, then they need to be refinished.
It's not that difficult to do. They're only metal wire chairs. In their current condition it would only increase the resale value. They can't get much worse. If those were painted with a nice enamel, and matched in texture, color, and sheen, I'd get more for them in my store than they'd ever bring now.
If restoration didn't raise the resale value of items, no one would restore old vending machines, gas pumps, fire hydrants, barber chairs, vintage, and antique cars that have been left in fields to rust to their death. Antiques roadshow would never tell people that restoration would help an item, which they do routinely. There'd be no such thing as wood stain for furniture. No cleaning chemicals. No need to wash your clothes, or car. Just leave it all exactly as it builds, or wears.
6 restored Coca Cola machines just brought $69,999 on ebay, so your rusted original vs. restored sale falls on deaf ears to people who don't like rust. The majority of people will pay more for restored mint, over unrestored, full of rust all day long. If she tried to sell them right now, every person that looked would use the rust against her to get them cheaper, so how does rust help?
Rust is not a patina...lol. A patina is a darkening, or aging of the finish, while the metal is still in it's natural, undeteriorated state underneath. Patina does not come off on your clothes. Patina does not eat through metal, and destroy it with age. Rust does. Patina adds value. Rust does not.
Even if she cleans them well, eventually they'll start to rust again, because there's no paint or primer left to protect the metal. She'll start seeing little reddish brown dots everywhere, and sure enough, here comes that rust again... Rust starts at welds, and when each chair has 40 welds a piece, it's a lot of rust to keep up with. If nothing else, it'll be a constant cleaning battle for the rest of her life.
She can do whatever she wants, but you're def. not the defining market for the whole world, and shouldn't act as such. Some people want old silver (or silver plate) with a full dark brown patina, others want it shining like a diamond. At the end of the day it all sells for the same amount. So, it's what she wants. Not you, or me. I just offered a smart, backed by millions, friendly, opinion.
GD: You already said this in your first post.
I offered an opinion too.
I don't agree with you when it comes to these specific examples.
Simple. Get over it.
I did not say I was the defining market for the world. You did.
Get off of your "pissing match" mentality.
It's BORING.
I now understand that almost everything you sell is probably over restored, or repainted entirely.
Thank you for the warning.
An object is only authentic vintage original ONCE.
in my opinion...
you're both right for different reasons!
I'm not a dealer, other than moving a few things that I collect through other dealers, so that's not my thing.
When I saw the chairs in the back room at the thrift shop, I planted myself and waited hours for them to come out. I loved the look of them.
I have no ambition to sell them at this point.
Now, I'm paranoid to sit on them (assuming the welds could be weak - they're not reinforced)
AND
I have visions of rust, spreading like a wildfire.
When I HAVE sold things, I've noticed that most people buy "functional" aka "I can use this/these".
This was my first ever post here (I only signed up yesterday!) and I love the passions on both sides of the virtual fence.
Ultimately, you're right, it's my decision to make. I know I can never go back, once I make the decision to restore/repaint, but at the same time, if they're so fragile and only "display case worthy" only, I wonder, "what's the point?".
Thanks to everyone who engaged in this discussion, I do appreciate your opinions!
I'll let you know where I land 🙂
You offered your
standard narrow minded answer like always. Why didn't you hijack Panic's thread on the Eames lounge chair he's restoring since you take such a strong stance on anti-restoration? Since you stand up for all things original.
"Get off of your "pissing match" mentality."
I agreed that if they were just stained, to clean them. I agreed with you, but that's not always the case. My whole comment was based off "if" these are beyond just wiping down for someone who wants to own them for 20 years, with limited future involvement of their health condition. Are you gonna drive to her house and clean them for her every time they need it until 2040?
It's BORING.
What I find boring is your same old black and white pre-loaded responses. Every answer to every post from anyone is either leave it like it is, or don't buy it if it needs any work. Even though I admittedly agree with that for the most part, there's variables sometimes in life. That's the mysterious grey area you have such a hard time grasping.
Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. She bought these in rough shape, because she liked the look, but they just so happened to be overly neglected from previous owners, and in need of love, and tlc. How can you deny a starving man food?
"I now understand that almost everything you sell is probably over restored, or repainted entirely."
Lol. I don't hide from the truth for the sake of preserving originality, if that's what you mean. I call it like it is. Then I sell them restored for top dollar to buyers that don't want rusted out original shit. I do it all day. So do thousands of others. Search the word "restored" on ebay completed sold, highest first. It starts with cars at around $200,000, and goes down from there. That's just one site. I restore things when they need restored. I wipe them down, and clean them when they don't. When they are restored they bring top dollar every time. I can prove it, so gtfo with your restoration only kills resale bit.
"An object is only authentic vintage original ONCE."
Everyone wants their authentic original vintage heart, but sometimes you need a transplant in life. I commend you for wanting to keep them original, but not everyone wants rat rod furniture, just to say it's never been repaired.
okay
i looked the chairs over. each and every one of them. they all have rust here and there.
I want them to survive (and it's unlikely that anyone's coming over to clean them up for the next 40!).
damn! they're almost a liability!
i could use some constructive advice on appropriate restoration - is there a minimum compromise do you think?
p.s. I did buy them because I "liked the look" but I had a pretty good idea on what they were. that said, I spotted another Eames chair in the dankiest basement the other day - looked like a dkr but with padded seat and back in black. I can only imagine what it needs. Did I mention the teak chair that I spotted there as well? 🙂
also, you don't have to call me "she" - PG will work 🙂
thanks guys. really.
http://www.archiexpo.com/prod/vitra-home/design-chairs-charles-ray-eames...
You made your point long ago....
You are the one with the predictable answers. But your's always seem to max out the word limit just repeating the same idea over and over.
Please point out when have I EVER said "don't buy it if it is bad condition" (?)
Not me.
I love stuff that has been through life.
You are collecting everything you don't agree with on this site, and assigning it to me in a frustrated rage. God only knows why. At least be accurate.
I don't know shit about pottery or glass. Or a multitude of other stuff. I am not in it for the money. I am just a collector. I am completely self-indulgent in my collecting interests, and I am NOT trying to "train myself" to make a living learning about and selling ALL things to all people at the highest price.
You are.
I also know something about art.
I can tell you that much of what you need to know about 20th century design can be found by learning about Eames, Nelson and Noguchi.
Everyone else comes in way after that. Of course I enjoy (and collect) other stuff too. I do love Arne Vodder and Mitchell Bobrick, and I have a killer first year Saarinen "womb" chair. (Evil of course) and some McCobb cases. I can see it when something is well designed.
But I DON'T fucking CARE IF YOU GET A 200% MARK-UP FOR REPAINTING YOUR A$$! I come from an entirely different place than you philosophically.
I'm just not interested in making a new one out of an old one.
Why?
Because I believe well-designed things should age gracefully.
That is a big part of the challenge of a good design, in my opinion. How does it hold up with USE? How well did the designer anticipate that use? And half the fun (for me) is seeing if they do or if they don't hold up well! That is way more interesting to me than simply making it all new again.
IS THAT OKAY???
GOOD.
"Top dollar" indeed....and another authentic example bites the dust in the name of "pretty", "profit" (and casual participants)
Back to PG's question,
PG, were you to leave them as is in the interest of 'retaining value'...keeping them untampered to resell for profit at a later date, I can only think a collector would bypass your chairs altogether, in lieu of ones in better original condition. They are not exactly rare, even though they are apparently early examples, they do have some paint loss and rust, although I cannot tell how much from your photos.
If you're not planning on selling them, and the rust really bothers you, take an artist's brush and just dab the rust spots with a little matte Tremclad to cease any further rusting. Or do nothing, and watch the horror of them disintegrating imperceptibly before your very eyes over the next several decades...:-)
My 40 year old Vespa (motorscooter) periodically requires me to address a couple of tiny areas of rust, which I do. It's unlikely I've caused it to be devalued any, if at all, by doing so....added: but my interests, or lively hood do not rely on resale values.
enjoy your chairs, life is short
.
If you do decide to do anything to the rust you might try any of a variety of products that are a rust converter instead of paint. They chemically change the rust into a more stable compound that protects the underlying iron. (Wikipedia has a little article that explains the principle).
URL to a site that offers information about iron from a conservator's view:
http://www.thehenryford.org/research/caring/iron.aspx
Rust
Maybe it would help if a fellow Canadian waded in. I wouldn't sand blast these chairs. That is too harsh for vintage metal. You can take them to a shop specializing in vintage cars--ask them if they have a 'media blaster'. The blasting media might be either glass or walnut shells. After that you can prime them, then topcoat with a good enamel paint. I like to use semi-gloss or satin paint so the chair won't look too shiny like plastic. Or, a less expensive approach would be to use a wire brush to remove flaking rust only. Leave the surface rust alone. You can get brushes with brass bristles if you want to be careful. Our local dollar store sells packs of three small,narrow brushes--One each of steel, brass and stainless steel bristles. Then go to an auto supply store and get a bottle of 'Rust Mort'. This will kill the remaining rust and form a primer for the topcoat. After using the Rust Mort wait 24 hrs., then wash and dry the chairs before priming the whole chair. Then you can topcoat after the primer is cured. Hope that helps.
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