The Design Addict vase project (part 3)  

Yes, I know that the process...
Yes, I know that the process is rather unusual but the question is the following: if you wanted to buy these vases, what would you consider as a fair price? It is important that we find the right balance. On one side, it's a vase produced in a limited series and conceived by a group of very brilliant personalities : -) On another side, Design Addict has always aimed to give access to its contents to the greatest number. I think this aim should be reflected on the price of the vase.
HP, why limit the marketing and distribution reflection to Koen and us? In the forum, there are people who have these competences, who could expressed themself in this field. The launching process of a product is important. One of the interests of our experiment in this thread is to show the diversity of the aspects to manage, from the first sketch to the sale of a product.
Some price examples of ceramic vases currently on the market:
Ron Arad Ringoletto Vases : small $98- large $139
Marcel Wanders egg vase $154
Jaime Hayon Showtime vases $240
...

ah ok, I allways have a...
ah ok, I allways have a local perspective and think its better that products doen't travel too far from home, but that is a personal opinion and I can see why financially you'd want distribution outside of Europe.
What sort of wording will be used to promote the vase? "collaborative project" "hippodesign/Koen de Winter" "design addict" or "online collaborative project" or all those things? Even though Koen provided the fianl solution I think emphasising the online collaboration aspect would be good.
I suppose packaging and a name is important too, I like taxonomic sounding words and very stiff recycled cardboard with a woodblock style stamp and shredded paper from offices for cushioning.
Perhaps some lists of potential retailers internationally?
But as Patrick asked for some comments on how much people would empty their wallets for lets have some of that, I'd say about US $85 for the little brother.
How is the vase going in the real world Koen? Do the prices Patrick quoted accord with any estimated costs of manufacture you might have?

Um...
I want to charge $49 and $39 so alot of persons can afford them, but...
Koen thinks it will have a small market, so...
I think you have to price them based on:
their extraordinariness in terms of the design process (probably 10-20 times the design person hours with some of the best designers in the world collaborating with some of the most fanatically enthusiastic lovers of design to produce products exuding a passion, intelligence and elegance like no other before them in history);
the uniqueness of their beauty; and
the innovativeness of the function.
Frankly, these will be the best cermaic flower vases in the world once made, there will only be 500 examples, and so they should be priced higher than any other ceramic flower vase in the world. What's the highest price for a ceramic vase? Ours should be 15% more.

.
I still remember very well a sentence in the FIRST POST of Koen in “The Design Addict vase project (part 1)”, that I liked a lot:
“My hope is that we can at least produce it at reasonable cost so that everybody that has contributed to it and interested bystanders can buy one.”
But It seems that at this point we have two borders:
BORDER 1 ) the “affordable vase” (u$s 29///59)
((((so everybody could buy one…..)))
I also would like it to be at that price but.
Why not that price? (why a higher price?)
a) Distribution costs will rise the production costs a lot I think(Let,s see the distribution aspects later please)
b) As James Collins said “It's not what I would call an "everyday" vase.” And also” this would probably not be my choice for my only vase.”
So we could say that this is not a “first vase”, and nor an “everyday” vase.
c) As koen and DCWilson thinks that it will have a small market. (Me too)
d) the reasons just mentioned by DCwilson.
BORDER 2) the “collection vase” (u$s 800///2000)
(((as it,s numbered etc., only 500, the first experience……)))
Why not that price? (why a lower price?)
a) I found a bit unfair starting with a $500 price. Please remember how we started, thinking which kind of vase people need, how to arrange flowers, which flowers, how to put them, etc….. I don,t think that the people that pays that money would think in any of those things, It will be bought for “the collection”, And… ANYBODY TOUCH THE VASE PLEASE!!
b) This is the fist project, I imagine a painter that do their first picture, and thinks that it could be sold at $ 1000000, because of the prices of Picasso and van Gogh,s.
c) this is the first project, If it will be successful, there can be others. If not, will be also the last one. And I wouldn,t like a first experience with a bitter taste.
IS THE ANSWER A MID PONIT?,
May be yes, and so, $100-200 could be a “starting point price”
I wouldn,t put a higher “starting” price, and provably a bit lower.
TODAY I would say that $80-150 it,s an ambitious enough price.
Why?
The comparison that Patrick made with the vases (Ron Arad Ringoletto Vases : small $98- large $139/Marcel Wanders egg vase $154/
Jaime Hayon Showtime vases $240) Are a very good comparison. And if we compared with DAvase, theirs have already some time in the market. And the DA not yet. So I would put them a step lower at least.
They would cost $1000 in the future, I hope it will be, but may be not now.
“THE MARKET WILL UPSIDE (or downside) THE PRICE.”
PS:
Patrick, Don,t be afraid, prices are not “eternal prices”. Prices are “limited time”. You,ll could make “corrections” as you see how the market moves.

First some answers...
Considering the effort that has been put into it by all participants I could not imagine anything like designed by KDW (used to stand for Kilkenny Design Workshop)or Hippodesign.
On the contrary it should state clearly that it is the result of a virtual collaboration between designaddicts from wide spread geographical locations. I suggest that dcwilson starts to sharpen his pen (the bottom is quite large so...).
I would think that considering the packaging and shipping costs, we have to keep it including shipping under $100 U.S. I also think that whoever collaborated on it should get at least one at 30-35% discount. That would still leave some margin for the initial objective, whichwas fund-raising...in a creative way.

I like it!
especially the 30% discount. What about the black one? I'll have one of each.

It is just a proposal...
...and yes, we are working on the formula for a "black vitrious china" one. If we do not succeed we will do a satin black glazed one.
Whatever the price will be I think we should honour the tradition that the designer recieves his or her product for free, but considering the group's effort and the goal of this whole exercise I suggest we do it at a generous discount.

Kilkenny Irish Beer?
Koen. When you mentioned Kilkenny Design Workshop I thought you were referring to an idea developed by a bunch of people under the influence of alcohol. Now I know better. Although from time to time I still have my doubts about the inspiration behind comments in the DA Forum.
http://www.kilkennyshop.com/about_us/index.htm

Josiah Wedgwood Black Basalt
I have Josiah's black basalt formula if needed (more or less). His formula for the black basalt ware also produced a result almost as hard as porcelain, so it's good stuff. Adding magnesium dioxide to the red clay alone tends to have a bluish cast.

Hi James,
I would love to have it, but black iron oxyde, copper sulfate and some cobalt will probably do the trick.
...I am still curious..I am sure your partner knows more about this than I do.

+=#-
Equal parts red clay and coal black (black iron oxide, China is making tons of the stuff) and a teaspoon of Magnesium oxide. Supposed to be nearly as hard as porcelain.

black basalt tests
As you can see here, the project is progressing well. Here is a picture of color tests that Koen has done to obtain the black basalt finish that everybody liked so much.

For those interested in...
the basalt-like colour and James Collins' suggestion not only on that particular colour but also on the formula. The Closest to what i think we would like to reach (the left low corner) is in weight:
95% stoneware clay (normally firing beige brown)
2% iron oxyde
2% magnesium oxide
1% cobalt oxyde
The only problem with it is that it shrinks 18% whereas porcelain shrinks 16% so... in order to get the same size vase we have to make a set of large and a set of somewhat smaller moulds. So I would like to reach the same colour with less shrink.
We are not there yet!

A naive question:
Would it be unacceptable, and unheard-of in retail practice, to have the two colors sold in their respective sizes, different by 2% in height and width ?
I'm a believer in allowing material(s) to have their say in the design/manufacture dialog, I guess. But do carry on toward the ideal. . .!

Shrinkage
Josiah (Wedgwood) allowed up to 20% shirnkage for the basaltes so if you are getting 18 you're doing well 😉
How high are you firing it? The samples look awesome.