The Design Addict vase project (part 3)  

Hi SDR...
I actually started off with round "stems" and thus round holes, but I can not find a way to make it unless each and every hole has it's own mould part and so the mould of the top would on it's own be a 20 part mould (19 holes and one part to keep all of this together) I might do it one day...after I have enameled all old Copco pans, written a book about design (as I see it) Turned the house in a O carbon emission oasis, put some order in over 400 product archives...well you get the picture.
Then again, with the exception of tulips...nature's attempt to copy a plastic flower...and Mies van de Rohe's favorite...flowers tend to have all kind of stem shapes. And than there was James Collins turning combination of hexagones and pentagones that brought tears to my eyes. I think that the combination of the honeycomb top with the Venturi cooling tower shape (by some seen as a feminin weastline) gives it both the charm of an enlarged microscopic structure and the equally convincing charm of a scale model. There is something very convincing in this combination of the two....at least that's how I see it.

SDR, let's see, he says..
"...enameled all old Copco pans, written a book about design (as I see it) Turned the house in a O carbon emission oasis, put some order in over 400 product archives..."
At the pace Koen keeps, he should have all this finished by lunchtime today. Sooooooo, look for a round-tubed vase out of the kiln by about noon tomorrow. 😉

All this is absolutely amazing.
I should start greeting all of you for all the great designs, drawing, plans and ideas, but I,ll end no posting. (so take this intro like a looooooooooooooong congratulation to ALLLL of you)
When I saw the gorgeous “DA vase by Koen”. I also thought it was a bit “fat”, (proportion diameter –hight = 1-2) Thinking it could be good a second thinner version.
I also think it,s better 2 or 3 versions for the “collection”.
Now that it,s done the thinner version. I ask..,
The thinner shouldn’t be the taller,
and the fatter the smaller?

Thanks, Koen --
I guess that's a good ilustration of how every design decision has ramifications not always understood by the uninformed -- like me ! I think the two examples are very handsome as they are -- and the concept of easy handling is well addressed too.
As to other proportions -- like any creature of land or sea, this design could take an almost unlimited variety of shapes and sizes, while still having the same DNA. Perhaps in the future, when every outlet might have its own 3D printer, the customer will be able to have a unique example of an object like this -- though not in fired and glazed ceramic, perhaps !
In the meantime -- I agree that a small family (of 2 or 3 ?) would be lovely; I'm interested to hear that this does help with sales.
SDR

Well...
I do not know it it helps with sales as directly as one would hope but three considerations are important here.
1- We like to choose, simply because it is a step in the appropriation process.
2- More than one size and more than one colour means that it will occupy more shelf space. (retailers do not like to choose for their customers) more shelf space means simply more attention. In comparaison with the time we want to spend in a store the number of products is very big. So more space increases the chance to be notices.
3-There are indeed differences in the function that relate to size. Number of cups in a teapot,size and number of flowers, size of the person that will be using it (important particularly in shoes....) etc.
An additional consideration is the one already mentioned, if you do not do the obvious variations, someone else will do it.
Anyway, this being said, I have found a way of making them round, but there is a small concession to be made. Before trying to put that in words I will take the good old pen and start to draw...

Black!
Hooray my favorite! I'm happy to see that there will be a black Atelier Orange product...I've been yearning for it! I love the vase and stand amazed by the creative process. You all are amazing.

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It is hard....
not to reveal the way I intend to produce the hexagonal top, but let me at least say two things. The first one is that it is essential to have equal wall thickness. The circular holes do not allow that so in order to take them out of the mould I have to make them tappered enough to have a draft angle in each hole. Even than, shrink makes it difficult to produce. But on paper everything works so this was SDR's proposal of round holes. The fact that the lower holes are now formed by two walls creates small pockets that will be difficult to clean. The other detail I have to reveal is that I can only make one hexagone in the middle 6 hexagones around that one and 12 hexagones on the outside. The system does not allow me to make, as Gerrit rightfully reminded us of, an extra series of hexagones on the outer rim. If we want to include this in the final design we have to "steal" hexagones in the outer dozen.
One other detail related to Gerrit's suggestion of making irregular shapes. I can make the shapes irregular as long as the walls are either part of the (3) circonferences or exactly on the radius of the center. The reason being that these last ones have to shrinck freely in the mould, if they are under an angle they can not do that.

Thanks,
Koen -- that illustrates the molding issue quite well -- the cylinders aren't any more effective and handsome than the hex, and I certainly accept that the hex is more natural to the process and the concept. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate the alternative.
This is going to be such a wonderful product ! Imagine having something with the DA name on it -- I'm thrilled.

After seeing both...
I prefer honey bee nouveau (the hexagonal version), as the significantly stronger design and view the round tube version as the more supple for.
I also like that the hexagons make a subtle reference to the bees that pollinate flowers, regardless of whether it was intended in the design or coincidental.
Next, after having shown both designs to a few persons-some men, some women--I forecast there will be one group of buyers that prefers the hex tubes, and another the round tubes. It follows less along the lines of man and woman in my anecdotal survey than along the lines of some persons preferring smoothness and others preferring angularity, or edges, in their art. Smooth persons versus edgy persons.:-)
I intuitively sense that the hex version should be colored boldly and definitively, whereas the round version should be more muted and pastel.
I'm not sure what the implications of the above are for choosing a DA version, but those are some thoughts that occurred to me today.

I've never liked the shape...
I've never liked the shape of hexagons, especially applied to furniture but with the vase I think that they look heaps better than the tubes, the circles might look better in a straight marina towers shaped cylinder.

Circles vs Hexagons
The circles seem forced, the hexagons seem the natural result of the shape and form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solid

Thank you very much for your...
Thank you very much for your answers, Koen. I admit that in my great naivety, I had not taken into account the copyright aspect when I tried to list the parameters to determine the sizes. Nor did I think about the filling of the oven. I find this "fine tuning" phase very interesting to follow, it is a bit like a game of chess, each decision is taken by anticipating the consequences on the next steps. It is fascinating to see each element of the process setting up perfectly. The example of the relation of the shape of the vase with the loading of the oven is particularly conclusive (sketch below).
I entirely agree with you all that the hexagonal version is more convincing than the round tubes. If it is also easier to produce, it's a no brainer.
Amiel's 3d rendering in "basalt" is very attractive, I agree with Olive, James and others on this point. Concerning this material, what would be the differences in terms of "performance"? Is the solidity equivalent to the white porcelain? Is there a significantly different ecological impact in terms of raw materials and times of cooking for example? Is the retraction rate the same for these different materials? Can one use the same moulds?

Hi Patrick,
When James suggested the black basalt version he mentioned the Wedgewood technology. I would have to try out a number of things but basically in the Wedgewood technology the clay is coloured with cobalt,magnesium and iron all in oxyde or sulphate form. They have a tendency to form an eutecticum, so I will haver to do a number of tests. (An eutecticum is when two or more materials together have a melting point that is lower than the melting point of each of the components. Typically cobalt and Silicium are highly refractory (resisting more than 1500 degrees C.) but together they melt at less than 1000 C.)
These minerals usually colour the moulds so I will have to make a set for the white vases and a different one for the black version. In any case I would make several moulds (in the industry you can have hundreds of moulds of the same product)so the colour does not matter. In terms of strength, there will be a (theoretical) difference but it is hard to say which version will be the strongest...

The Buzz!
For me the hexagonal version has much more impact and the angularity gives a sort of “deco” feel to the shape. Patrick’s original design, although I verbally reduced it to a “bunch of sticks”, also had a certain individuality that dissipated later due to the realities of production. To reiterate my previous comments, and in agreement with many others, the shape of the waist has added a certain vivacity to the design. In the words of Ella Fitzgerald “It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing”. Whatever the genre, this design swings, bops, rocks and hip-hops with quite a wide appeal. Because it is powerful it will not have universal appeal, and that is a good thing Martha.
Now on the other hand the logical/methodical side of my split personality is fascinated by the discussion on the production process. Koen has gently shepherded us through the steps and I appreciate his patience in retaining a focus without being dismissive of our input. Aesthetics remain strongly individual but the collective creation of a honeycomb by this hive is a very interesting process. I’ll buzz off now.