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Raijin
(@raijin)
Estimable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 85
17/09/2021 7:53 am  

Opinions are like.... well anyways I find much of Ole Wanscher and most of Hans Wegner to be boring. For my personal aesthetic I think in most cases I would take Jalk over Wegner. I also like Hans Olsen and yes even several boring old Henry Kjaernulf designs sometimes too. I'd take Jerry Lee Lewis over Franz Liszt as a pianist because thats just how I roll. You seem to have such a vaulted opinion of the value of your opinion. Where are your great artistic accomplishments that allow you to cast such high handed judgements upon others.


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fredhh
(@fredhh)
Trusted Member
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 79
17/09/2021 10:28 am  

No one will forbid you to find banal design beautiful, or to listen to banal music rather than sophisticated music. You are a consumer of design and music and you have your preferences, that is completely okay, but if you were educated in arts, educated in watching and looking and listening, and have the talent to implement this training, then the question of personal taste no longer plays a role, then only the artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined, even if an amateur like you does not understand it. Your statement is the typical statement of a philistine who thinks that art is a matter of taste.


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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
(@leif-ericson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 5660
17/09/2021 12:47 pm  

(Illustrative image attached)

1631875678-273B10A8-FA72-48EA-B3D3-221C9397FC51.png

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tktoo2
(@tktoo2)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 745
17/09/2021 3:17 pm  

Fred, I'm not sure if your personal fur-lined teacup would seem less tedious if explained in your native tongue, but somehow I doubt it.


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Andersen
(@andersen)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 278
17/09/2021 9:06 pm  
Posted by: fredhh

No one will forbid you to find banal design beautiful, or to listen to banal music rather than sophisticated music. You are a consumer of design and music and you have your preferences, that is completely okay, but if you were educated in arts, educated in watching and looking and listening, and have the talent to implement this training, then the question of personal taste no longer plays a role, then only the artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined, even if an amateur like you does not understand it. Your statement is the typical statement of a philistine who thinks that art is a matter of taste.

If art can be summarized in a formula, AI will make the most beautiful chairs we will ever see. There won’t be any need to have the fun to see how a new piece fits into our living room, someone else will tell us what to put there. 


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Kyle Barrett
(@kyle-barrett)
Illustrious Member Moderator
Joined: 2026 years ago
Posts: 667
17/09/2021 11:53 pm  
Posted by: fredhh

No one will forbid you to find banal design beautiful, or to listen to banal music rather than sophisticated music. You are a consumer of design and music and you have your preferences, that is completely okay, but if you were educated in arts, educated in watching and looking and listening, and have the talent to implement this training, then the question of personal taste no longer plays a role, then only the artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined, even if an amateur like you does not understand it. Your statement is the typical statement of a philistine who thinks that art is a matter of taste.

If you were educated in the arts you'd acknowledge subjectivity above all else, actually. It's the one form of academia or sphere of thought where a unanimity of opinion is more valuable than an objective metric.

For what it's worth, I have openly been a proponent of the 166 (they're also my favourite easy chair of the period), but I doubt a consensus will be reached on that. And I think there's justifications for it being YOUR favourite, but not a justification for it being an empirically better design than the 118 by Grethe Jalk.

I will reiterate, I'd prefer have an opinionated arse on this forum than another person talking in tongues and occasionally promoting their item on Alibaba. It's close though. Could you try to be less abrasive?


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Raijin
(@raijin)
Estimable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 85
18/09/2021 3:34 am  
Posted by: fredhh

No one will forbid you to find banal design beautiful, or to listen to banal music rather than sophisticated music. You are a consumer of design and music and you have your preferences, that is completely okay, but if you were educated in arts, educated in watching and looking and listening, and have the talent to implement this training, then the question of personal taste no longer plays a role, then only the artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined, even if an amateur like you does not understand it. Your statement is the typical statement of a philistine who thinks that art is a matter of taste.

Once again you make a bunch of assertions with nothing to back it up. Better a philistine then a poser. I have a fine arts degree from a highly rated university and worked as a designer for nearly 2 decades and as someone with an education and experience I can state full heartedly that this statement "artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined" is full of sh*t. This is especially true for something industrial like furniture, where the "form vs function" debate can be argued indefinitely from either side.


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Raijin
(@raijin)
Estimable Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 85
18/09/2021 3:37 am  
Posted by: leif ericson - Zephyr Renner

(Illustrative image attached)

1631875678-273B10A8-FA72-48EA-B3D3-221C9397FC51.png

I just sold that rocker like 2 months ago... meh I was happy to get what I could for it. The name is worth more than the design.


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Andersen
(@andersen)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 278
18/09/2021 9:19 am  
Posted by: Raijin
Posted by: leif ericson - Zephyr Renner

(Illustrative image attached)

1631875678-273B10A8-FA72-48EA-B3D3-221C9397FC51.png

I just sold that rocker like 2 months ago... meh I was happy to get what I could for it. The name is worth more than the design.

Agree that for the 166 the name is worth more than the design ! 


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JohnJohn
(@johnjohn)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 16
18/09/2021 12:17 pm  
Posted by: Raijin

Once again you make a bunch of assertions with nothing to back it up. Better a philistine then a poser. I have a fine arts degree from a highly rated university and worked as a designer for nearly 2 decades and as someone with an education and experience I can state full heartedly that this statement "artistic quality counts, and the criteria for this quality can be clearly defined" is full of sh*t. This is especially true for something industrial like furniture, where the "form vs function" debate can be argued indefinitely from either side.

You cannot learn to be an artist, you are an artist or you are not.
At the academy you can learn techniques and theory, but not be an artist.
Even a degree is of no use if you are not an artist.
There are hundreds of thousands of graduated art students who later work as taxi drivers or artisan/crafter or, as you do, as vintage dealers because they are not artists.
None of my former fellow students are successful in the art market, they only do exhibitions in provincial bank foyers or waiting rooms at the dentist and vegetate in second-rate designer offices or work as teachers to teach others what they themselves are not able to do.
Like me too. And you obviously as well, or why are you a vintage dealer?


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tktoo2
(@tktoo2)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 745
18/09/2021 4:27 pm  

@johnjohn, Where did @raijin claim to be an artist?

The conversation was about one's ability to discern 'good' design which, in itself, is rather pointless.


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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
(@leif-ericson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 5660
18/09/2021 4:33 pm  

We should not rule out the possibility that FredHH is a creation of new fangled AI (which is an assertion that logical consistency would demand FredHH allow for given prior statements). For the developer, proving the AI on a forum like this (highly aesthetic subject matter) would be an interesting experience. Does the AI pass as human? Is it treated as a poser / imposter?  As a philistine, but human? Can it make deterministic objective aesthetic choices that are credible to humans? 


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JohnJohn
(@johnjohn)
Active Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 16
18/09/2021 4:46 pm  

tktoo: It is not pointless among artists.
But it is pointless to talk to non-artists about art.


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tktoo2
(@tktoo2)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 745
18/09/2021 4:49 pm  

Fred's an algorithm derived from old 'Niceguy' DA Forum posts?

Nah, they're both too sensitive to criticism.


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tktoo2
(@tktoo2)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 745
18/09/2021 4:59 pm  

@johnjohn, I might argue that it's even less relevant for non-artists to lecture non-artists on art.


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