Sounds like you're ....
... thinking along the lines of the "eamesdesigns" seating page format?
Some thoughts..
I might add a close-up of the underside of chairs. If you are looking for true visual "evidence", some of the embossments and markings wont show up on a whole-chair underside shot.
If the online form is image based ONLY, it might weed out quite a few people who would otherwise contribute information. (I look no further than my own laziness about providing photos to know this!)
You sound like you are not afraid of real work! Very ambitious project you propose...
My own idea for a "once and for all" information list was perhaps more casual, such as a simple "time-line" thread, with a first post (like the list that I posted above)
As knowledgeable members of the forum chimed in with contradictory bits of info, I (or someone) could edit/update the list to reflect, fine-tune or expand inclusive dates.
Just a timeline really.
In this scenario, visual examples of each label or mark type could be added later. ( But I do see how there would be a need for PROOF of combinations of labels and dates etc. though..) But still, I feel that 95% of this stuff could be based on text. (and honesty)
Also, I was just zeroing in on arm shells, and maybe side shells. Perhaps that is far more narrow than your plan? (thinking of the Eamesdesigns site again..)
I'm sure BOTH versions or some combination would be useful. Are you thinking it would all just get absorbed into the eamesdesign site at some point?
Thanks for the feedback...
Thanks for the feedback EamesHead.
I was thinking of just keeping it to the shell chairs (Arm, Side, Upholdstered/Non-Upholstered). This is because my main personal interest lies with these. I'm sure at a later date I could expand on that.
Good idea about the close-ups. I will make the main ones required form fields including at least one close up of the markings. Spare image fields will be there in case anything else significant appears on the chair.
As far as working it with the Eames Designs site, I think they would find it invaluable and will share the information freely and be of any help I can. There consistency of photography is great. Excellent quality control. I'm not sure what photos we will end up with on the website 🙂
There will be an optional email address I think or a check box asking if the user minds being contacted by myself or if the information is to be passed on to the thrid party (Eames Designs ONLY). Have to think about that one a bit more.
All in all, it will be an interesting project. I will hopefully start within the next couple of weeks and will keep you posted.
If you or anyone else can think of other ideas regarding what to do with the information that would be great. I want to keep the form simple and quick to fill out. People are very busy 🙂
Well...if you mean the...
Well...if you mean the information is on the public domain as in having to trawl the internet to gain some sense of when a chair was, 'possibly' manufactured, then yes that is true. There is no, 'one stop' place for a newbie to find this information ie Images, Advice on buying chairs, Dating, History, Provinence etc
Straight from Eames Office...
"At most, you can say in which ten to twenty year period a particular part was made, because that's how long a run of shells would last, sometimes longer."
"Shells were made in quantity, and stored until individual orders came in for a particular model of chair."
"Often, year to year, different options were offered as reflected by the bases."
I just want to inform someone who is new to the chairs and wishing to purchase one. That information is not readily available in one place and you can waste many hours/days researching.
Eames Office document the American Manufactured chairs quite well but require help with the European ones.
"For example, in Herman Miller production, I can tell you that the glides of some of the shell chairs changed four times between 1950 and 1957."
If that information is going to help someone, then documenting it and making it available in one place is the best possible way.
Crashdesk
Much of the information you seek has been discussed and documented in various threads on this site. It could just be a matter of organizing that info into a more cohesive and simple format, in my opinion.
(Right now, it's not exactly "one-stop shopping" for info, I will grant you that, but much of it is there)
Many of the inclusive dates, are very well known by the design community at this point, but fine-tuning them any further than in my post above becomes a matter of educated guessing.
For example, the chair glides and bases info that you mentioned, I posted in my first entry on this thread, and that is pretty close to as good as you're gonna find (with a few possible refinements and arguments, of course)
It is also known that Herman Miller employees are often not good sources when it comes to historical details. This site is much better. But stuff gets buried and is often poorly categorized. When it comes to details, you often have to search for answers.
Eamesdesign site has good info too.
You are right that there is a need for more easily accessible info of this nature. It would be a good thing to have, and would eventually help to chip away at the many "grey areas" that persist.
Sounds like you are on a learning curve, so it is important to note that even when the hundreds of details are banked, there will STILL be a lack of absolute dates in many areas. (Again, my second post above reflects what is generally known, but also reflects the vagaries that may always exist)
(These persistent and specific grey areas are also quite well known-and even legendary- among Eames design fanatics)
Hope this helps.
The "H" marked sideshell...
The "H" marked sideshell came with a dining height H base with no glides. The original glides must have been damaged because they were taken off. I'm currently using a replacement set from Hume. This one is super fibery.
I also have another parchment sideshell and an orange sideshell. Both have:
1) C with star inside (Milicron Cincinnati)
2) "H" logo with "Herman Miller" underneath
3) Paper labels
The second parchment also has a white circular "Designed by Charles Eames..." medallion sticker. No bases came with these two sideshells.
Herman Miller logo with a B & Z?
Sorry to dig up an old thread but I've hit a road block with my own research.
I just picked up this parchment sideshell and have never seen this embossed 'B' before, any thoughts?
If my research is correct, the embossed 'HERMAN MILLER' didn't start until 1960.
The chair also came with an H base w/ white nylon/plastic glides, which didn't start until '57 (assuming they're original).
Do the markings on the shock mounts mean anything? Thanks in advance.
NOTE: It only took me 24 hours to realize I still had wrong information about the shells, so this post has been corrected.
Just ran across this old thread and want to thank everyone for all the information - some of which is new to me. I live in West Michigan, have purchased and sold a lot of shell chairs and have known HM employees, but it has still been tricky to find accurate information due to the company's 20+ year lack of record keeping back in the 50's-70's. I know a lot of people who would love to have a comprehensive timeline of the shell chairs and their various manufacturers. I'd like to add just a couple of pieces of information/corrections to what's already been said.
1. According to the Eames Office website, the overlapping triangles on shell chairs refer to the General American Transportation Corporation (GATC) - one of the first three makers of the shell. This is the only reference I've ever seen to yet another shell producer and would mean that none of the Summit companies had anything to do with the shells with triangles.
2. There appears to be two different Summit companies, or perhaps the same company with two different names and owners. One is Summit Prime, I've seen chairs produced in the early 60's with this stamp, and patent numbers from 1963-64. Then there are chairs with a stamp that just says "Summit", with a design that appears to approximate part of a plastic injection molding machine. Then there are chairs with an "S" or "S" in a circle. These appear to have been produced by Summit Polymers in Portage, Michigan. Summit Polymers was founded in 1972 by my former neighbor, I don't know if he purchased one of the older Summit companies and renamed it, or if it's just coincidence.
For what it's worth, I can offer a few things that I have personally observed re the shells known as "Summit":
I have multiple shells with the overlapping embossed triangles.
There are 2 different varieties of overlapping embossed triangles:
The (earliest) SMALLER double triangles.
The (later) LARGER double triangles (which also bear the circled "S" embossment.
Several of my shells with SMALLER overlapping embossed triangles bear white paper labels with patent numbers that support a manufacture date as early as 1955-56 to 1958 in most cases. I also have other small double triangles shells that are from 1959 with dates clearly stamped "Aug 1959" and "Nov 3, 1959" along with the paper labels with patent numbers that support this time frame. (The original bases on these shells also support these time frames)
So clearly, there were double triangle shells being produced as early as 1956.
It was my understanding that the circled "S" embossment began in around 1960. I have no labels to pinpoint this start date, but base styles, HM medallions, and tons of other evidence has supported this over several years of cross referencing.
I do have two black shells with the circle "S" embossment that are date stamped "1974" (as your information would support) But it is widely known that the color black (BK) was first introduced by HM in 1964, and I have never seen a black shell without the circle "S" embossment on it.
So because of the info above, my guess is still that the circle "S" embossment did indeed start in around 1960 or so.
I love it when new information throws a wrench into what was known before. But each new bit of info must be cross-referenced with ALL previously established info, to be understood.
One guy saying something on the Eames design website does not make it the new "true".
As we have all learned, there are lots of seemingly conflicting bits of information about dates and places and companies that have come to light over the years. Like you said, Herman Miller let things go for 20 years or more without ANY documentation, so to me, this info on the Eames site is just one more bit to be considered and questioned with all the rest that is out there.
I hope this helps, and thanks for all of your info! (Great to get a personal angle too!)
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