Well lets discuss the sh*t stirring and see what outcome would be preferred to meet all needs, both those of dealers like myself and those irrate nuts who seem to think that vintage furniture is "out to kill"
Firstly just because an item of funishings has crossed the water from Denmark to england it does not become a "death trap as angel. and others will have you beleive nor does it become as serious a health risk as the heavily laiden chemical laced fire retardant furniture that is already available.
Go on look up Decabromodiphenyl ether DBDE
As a dealer with more than 27 years experience I have so far never come across anyone who wanted to be reckless and play with fire/ matches / cigarettes in their home that they sought out furniture that would allow them to do so!
and especially not those clients who we supply to who are educated and basing their purchase BECAUSE the item is old and knowingly aware that it is not fire retardant.
Why can you buy a packet of cigarettes that say
SMOKING KILLS! SMOKERS DIE YOUNGER! etc
But not a classic Hans Wegner Pappa bear in original covers?
So are we not just encouraging the recklessness by making highly toxic furniture that is flame retardant and seeking to villify the items that are not to justify a point?
As I put it in court " A person of average intelligance will accept responsibility for their own actions but not the concequences.
Is a knife manufacturer at fault because a customer cuts them self on the knife?
I as a supplier will accept responsibility for my products which are supplied in a safe condition for its intended purpose.
Defects to any item supplied will be rectified but to insist that something which was produced and used for many years HAS to be transformed to meet regulations that are both a barrier and a hindrance 50 years later is ridiculous.
You must remeber that a sofa/chair is supplied for it;s intended purpose of seating! nothing else nothing more!
If I were a manufacturer I would have the means to and reasons to construct to regulations.
As I am not manufacturing and no supplier can be found, why do I have to be made responible for something post-process??
In case law there is "Casis Dijon" which ruled for the european union that
"if a product has been produced to a safety level in the country of origin and legally sold as safe, it must be assumed safe in all member states.
The case was brought on the basis that a product was supplied to another member state and in that state it was subject to yet more testing in order to be allowed onto the market.
A technical trade barrier. Breach of articel 32 Eu treaty and the basis of the EU! FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS AND SERVICES!
So lets hear your say!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decabromodiphenyl_ether#Possible_health_effects_in_humans
Simon, what
are you talking about? Are you saying that antique dealers are being held responsible for furniture compliance of their old, old stuff to today's standards?
Where is this happening?
If this becomes a trend and the lawyers in the US get ahold of this notion, I promise you, every antique dealer in the US will stop doing business in a New York Minute. I was a dealer in the US for 15 years and never once did a buyer ask about the inherent lead paint on the 1930's Hoosier cabinet (or whatever!) they bought.
they still sell non fire...
they still sell non fire retardent items
look at their website xxx
there is a desade sofa aka "murdering death trap"
(they've had it on their ebay a couple of times too)
those in glass houses should not throw stones
there is no reasoning with mental people and they are so obviously hell bent on causing trouble for anyone who dent their ego and give them competition
personally if i am ever pulled up on what i am selling i shall do the same as yourself simon and do my best to fight my corner
it would be easy to let this shower bully and intimidate us all into not selling what are basically modern day antiques and in many cases important historical items
not everyone wants an ercol daybed that looks like its been smacked in the face with the latest laura ashley catalogue!!!!!
(edited by Design Addict - no names please)
It seems the problem stems....
from the fact that The Furniture and Furnishings (Fire) (Safety) Regulations treats mid century upholstered items as just second-hand furniture. It would be interesting to know why post 1950 was chosen as the date-line. Sofa made in 1949 safe......sofa made in 1950, death trap! There is a very good book "Upholstery conservation: principles and practice
By Kathryn Gill, Dinah Eastop" which gives an in-depth case study of Ernest Race's Heron chair, c. 1955, as an example for the need to conserve foam-filled upholstery.
As for the Heavenly Creatures they ought to be charged with crimes against upholstery......go to their xxx website and look at the swively monster under Contact (have a bucket ready first).
edited by Design Addict - no names please
Unbelievable
I smoke and have never, ever smoked in bed or on a sofa. I don't even have an ashtray by my bed.
Smoking is a standing or seated upright position habit, plain and simple.
Anyone who falls asleep with a lit cigarette, pipe or cigar in his/her mouth deserves whatever might happen.
I just don't understand who's more stupid; the smoker who burns himself up or the people trying to legistlate 'safe furniture'.
I think quite simply every...
I think quite simply every dealer should be made to tell customers about the contents of a piece of furniture maybe have them sign a standard form to fill out and let the customer decide. I would like to point out that if it gets to the point where your sofa is on fire whether or not its is hazourdous is quite frankly the least of your problems!
The De sede Klug sofa they have on ther site came from ebay I know as I was the under bidder!! and as we are all aware absolutely illegal. Also whats with the pricing!!
signs
indeed ben you are on the right track with signs/ labels.
If a piece is labelled to point out the fact that this piece is made before the law came into for then surely the scared shitless would avoid it like the plague!!
labels for cigarettes
labels for furniture that HAS beeen produced flame retadant
banned all other upholstered furniture post 1-1-1950
Please, may we ask you not...
Please, may we ask you not to attack anyone personally?
Put yourself in our position, we cannot know all the ins and outs of your quarrels and therefore, it is impossible for us to moderate your discussions without bias. We are not comfortable when the forum is used for personal vendettas and we remind you that you are also legally responsable of your messages.
The discussion initiated by Simon about this English law is interesting because it strongly affects the vintage design market in the UK (personnaly we find this law completely stupid and unfair). So feel free to discuss the subject on the forum, but if you have complaints towards persons who would use this law to harm their competitors, please address yourself to these persons directly. Our forum is not a boxing ring.
is this an issue that
could be adressed under the fair trade and competition law is the status that A.T are using unfair tactics to gain advantage in the market place.
Also wondered if the freedom of information act could be used to preassure the DTI to release documents about the parties who pushed the law through and also details of the r3easoning for the addition in the amended law of the single destructive sentence second-hand furniture must also comply???
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