Hi. I recently had a bad experience with Paypal (my only one so far) and I would like to hear whether it would be an idea to complain or just accept defeat.
I sell vintage Scandinavian design items and I only use Paypal to receive and sometime send payments. So far all through the years I haven't had any trouble what so ever. Well, despite a slight annoyance when it comes to their high fees. Nevertheless it works effortlessly for me.
However I recently ship a package to France with two Cylinda Line pieces by Arne Jacobsen from Stelton. The package never arrived at the buyer's place. He has been great all the way, very friendly and professional, but understandably decided to file a "resolution of chargeback" through Paypal.
The package was not shipped insured or with tracking as it would be far too expensive on these two somewhat inexpensive Stelton pieces. But I had the shipping receipt with date, destination (France) and a postal fee equal to what the buyer paid. I sent a picture of this receipt to Paypal as part of the resolution details provided by both parties.
Still, after four months of waiting, the verdict came today in the words of "...despite our best
efforts, the buyer's credit card company decided in favor of the buyer".
Eh, how could this outcome be any different when it's the buyer's credit card company that solely decides whether they or I should loose money? I'd honestly expected that a neutral party would decide the outcome. Despite the clear indication of unfairness, I can't see how I can loose the case when I at least have a shipping receipt while the buyer has nothing.
So. This really agrevates my sense of justice. What do you think about the whole thing? Have you experienced something similar?
This might not be what you want to hear
but I wouldn't ship anything of value without a tracking number, as I know the onus would fall on the seller by Paypal should the item go missing.
Sure, it's more expensive and might put some bidders off, but it's just no longer worth the risk - in my opinion.
My sympathies.
It's an unfortunate situation, but you agreed to those terms when you signed up for Paypal:
http://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/User...
no problem
M_Andersen
There is no problem with PayPal. It clearly states in the user agreement:
11.4 Proof of Delivery Requirements.
"Proof of Delivery" is online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:
The item's status as delivered.
The date the item is delivered.
You did not follow the rules and were unable to provide the correct documentation.
don't
use paypal.
They are expensive and have written the rules to favour them selves.
Make payments IBAN with seller paying his fees.
Quick. Secure and SEND all items TRACKED no matter how much a skinflint the buyer it.
They always wash their hands on the seller and you loose out on both product and income.
Or sign up to have your own payment system.
If you sell enough it can make the difference and show that you are a professional.
Robert1960: Basically you?re...
Robert1960: Basically you?re right. But out of the recent 200 packages I?ve sent only 1 went missing, so I?m taking a sort of calculated risk. Maybe I?ve just been lucky. However I do ship with tracking on the more expensive items. I always state under my own selling conditions that the item is shipped without tracking/insurance unless the buyer directly asks for it. I thought that this would ?protect? me if a package was lost as the buyer has then accepted these terms and the accompanying risk by bidding.
Aunt Mark: You look great. But I don?t think I can talk that many potential Japanese buyers into paying $46 in shipping for a $50-$70 item weighing only 0.3 kilo (just to name an example). Those are the prices I?m up against when using the Danish Postal Service who almost completely dominates the market for international shipping in Denmark. But maybe I?m wrong. I?ll have to think about it. And look again for other shipping possibilities.
fastfwd/niceguy: You?re absolutely right regarding the user agreement. I?ve been using PayPal for like 10 years so it?s been a while since I?ve read it.
Niceguy: If I ship a package with tracking and accompanying documentation and the package suddenly goes missing somewhere on route, my hands are clean if the buyer files a resolution of chargeback, right? I get slightly confused about the aspect of PayPal?s ?proof of delivery? as missing packages aren?t delivered but missing. Is it then a situation where seller and buyer deal with the problem respectively with their credit card company and shipping company or will the buyer win as the seller ?only? as documentation for tracked shipping and not final delivery.
Simon: IBAN is alright but when shipping 3-6 minor items per week during the summer, mostly Scandinavian stoneware, I?m a complete sucker for how fast and easy PayPal works. Furthermore I have a job so this selling on eBay half the year is ?just? a sort of hobby to earn a little extra and get in touch with interesting people. If I lived of selling on eBay I would almost definitely use an alternate method of receiving payments.
Tom Ado: Shipping with tracking and/or insurance from Denmark is quite expensive in my opinion. Also, while your story is off topic I?m still interested in hearing whether the seller agreed to ship the silver at a much lower value than the actual price or if you asked him to do so without getting a reply?
All: I guess the problem is I know that the package was shipped correctly and I also have the receipt to prove it but sadly it doesn?t matter. It?s just easy to forget that justice is a manmade invention and not a law of nature.
It's worth noting that even...
It's worth noting that even if PayPal determines in your favor, many credit card companies will only accept signature confirmation as proof of delivery, at least as far as the US Postal Service is concerned. Delivery confirmation is only proof of delivery to a zip code, not a particular person. So, a customer could still dispute the charge and win. However, this is different for different carriers.
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