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On *really* old Knoll Saarinen stools  

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gene
 gene
(@genebalkgmail-com)
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06/08/2010 8:18 am  

This is nothing earth-shattering, and maybe folks already know this (or maybe I'm wrong), but I had a hard time trying to find this information out and basically pieced it together by looking at photos I found online of lots of vintage tulip stools. So I thought I'd share it with the forum.

I have a matched pair of tulip stools. One had the old 50s Knoll sticker on the underside of the cushion and one had the HG Knoll Products upholstery tag (which I was surprised at because I thought that tag was no longer in use by the time the tulip series went into production, but apparently it was). These stools were obviously "kosher" but I was wondering why they didn't have the BR-51 and three protruding cylindrical shapes on the underside of the base (instead, mine have a some numbers and "ALCOA" and a bunch of very slightly raised circle shapes). The other thing is that the underside of the base is partially painted white (not all the way into the stem though) and it looks like original paint, and I was under the impression that Knoll never painted the undersides at all. So I did a lot of looking and I found that these features on my stools are consistent with other very early examples, and that the BR-51 and three prongs and the unpainted underside may have come a little later.

So, I think it might be the case that if you find a stool (or chair, I guess) with the Alcoa and numbers instead of the BR-51 and three prongs, and it is partially painted underneath, you've found yourself a very early production example, and there don't seem to be that many out there because I had too look at a whole lot of these to come up with just a few examples that are exactly like the ones I found:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/saarinen-stool-with-knoll-fabric-1

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/saarinen-stool-with-knoll-fabric

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1950s-saarinen-stool-knoll-eames-era-modern-vintage


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NULL NULL
(@teapotd0meyahoo-com)
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06/08/2010 8:24 am  

Alcoa
I have a Tulip arm chair that is also stamped Alcoa on the base. The chair has the early Knoll sticker label.
Edit: I don't recall what was on the upholstery tag though.


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gene
 gene
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06/08/2010 8:35 am  

yeah, all the Alcoa ones I co...
yeah, all the Alcoa ones I could find had other signs of being 50s, which is why I think it indicate early production rather than just a different factory workshop.


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Killian
(@killian)
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06/08/2010 12:09 pm  

Thanks for this info. Much...
Thanks for this info. Much appreciated.


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uasrem2
(@uasrem2)
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Posts: 135
06/08/2010 9:06 pm  

.
Your photo shows tacks underneath as oppose to stitching. Is your upholstery original? Are the foam somewhat calcified? I've also seen replaced seat coverings fastened with upholstery staples.


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gene
 gene
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06/08/2010 9:32 pm  

I would definitely say the...
I would definitely say the vinyl on mine is original, yes. There is no question it has age, and I have seen this same color vinyl before - in fact it is the same as one of the stools I link to. Not really sure how the foam would have felt originally but may have a bit of hardening. The tacks on mine are consistent with two of the stools that I link to in my original post. The other one has staples which I am guessing must be later. The tacks look old.


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Mark
 Mark
(@mark)
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06/08/2010 10:04 pm  

.
Me and my stool must be about the same vintage...1962.........


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Mark
 Mark
(@mark)
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Posts: 4586
06/08/2010 10:27 pm  

oh my god...a fool am...
oh my god...a fool am i.....so sorry all.


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Mark
 Mark
(@mark)
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Posts: 4586
06/08/2010 10:33 pm  

why can't I paste???
why can't I paste???
many thanks all for dealing with a computer challenged fool.
psss gene..perhaps your stools have been reupholstered, with the label retained..as I don't think that the laborers @ Knoll circa 1958 would do such sloppy work. just my pre lunch observation...
Next??


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gene
 gene
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07/08/2010 12:12 am  

Mark -- No, they weren't
Mark -- No, they weren't reupholstered. The fabric appears to be as old as the stools, both the vinyl and the material underneath. I have seen this exact vinyl on other pieces form this period. Really, it would have had to have been reupholstered when it was practically new. Also, while I guess you could un-tack the upholstery tag and re-tack it, the Knoll logo sticker cannot be easily peeled off and re-glued (it is almost impossible), and what upholsterer would have done that anyway? I don't think people cared about retaining labels decades ago like they do now, and you just don't see old re-upholstery jobs where the original labels have been carefully saved and reapplied. Also, the stool that doesn't have the upholstery tag anymore still has the four tacks from where the upholstery tag once was. I think it is more that the material is falling apart and looks sloppy now rather than it was a sloppy job originally. Also, it looks like someone did add some tacks to the center of one stool to keep the fabric from falling off in the middle (those tacks are not the same as the tacks around the perimeter and the ones that would have held the upholstery tag). So I am sure these were not reupholstered.


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barrympls
(@barrympls)
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Posts: 2649
07/08/2010 4:28 am  

My one
recovered Saarinen stool looks the same as the two photos above; it was expertly recovered using orange wool Knoll Fabric and the label was retained.


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gene
 gene
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07/08/2010 5:17 am  

How did they get the label...
How did they get the label off the fabric?


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TCA
 TCA
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07/08/2010 7:54 am  

The stools
were Saarinen's 1957 Pedestal Group of Furniture. There were 2 stools identical in form except for height. Their bases were the same cast aluminum as that of the chairs. An upholstered latex foam pad which formed the seat was permanently secured to the base. A swiveling mechanism was available upon order.
The group consisted of an armchair, a side chair, two stools, and a series of tables.


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NULL NULL
(@teapotd0meyahoo-com)
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07/08/2010 7:59 am  

Thank you,
Mr. Googles.


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TCA
 TCA
(@tommypcarrgmail-com)
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Posts: 14
07/08/2010 8:01 am  

I don't think so. Show me.
Sure you can wink wink


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