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made a replica eames ltr side table today for under 10$  

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glassartist
(@glassartist)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 902
14/07/2014 6:41 am  

While I
don't dig the literary stylings of our Lunchbox (this is my problem of course, not his), the message is spot on. Anyone who has any respect for the field of design would not be knocking off designs, for any reason. Do you really NEED these designs that you obviously admire and covet so much that you will pollute the design "gene pool" with another fake? You won't live forever, but your tables likely will. And if you do them well, someone down the line will get ripped off by one of your heirs selling an "Eames" table that you made. Why not step out of the timid zone and be really bold. Make your own design. It can be vastly more satisfying than your present ambition. And if you just can't help yourself, I go with spanky. Mark it well, preferably with a large, deep burn stamp that clearly labels it as your creation.


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glassartist
(@glassartist)
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Posts: 902
14/07/2014 6:43 am  

OK Lunchbox
I lied. I actually do like your literary stylings. I just think the, well, bluntness of your writing distracts from the message. You know, the flies with honey thing.


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Mark
 Mark
(@mark)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 4586
14/07/2014 6:44 am  

Hello darling *spanky*.
I'd post a snappy (but I've put on 53 pounds in the last few days (water?), and I am suddenly missing my front right upper tooth). Give me a moment.
Your pal,
Aunt Mark


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
14/07/2014 7:41 pm  

in order to be dangerous
the knock offs have to be good. The OP's table is not in danger of fooling anybody. Yet. As I said, we see fakes on ebay all the time, and anybody but the most casual participant immediately knows that they are not real. And they sit.
So as a purely practical matter the point is moot. ( We so enjoy academic arguments here at design addict!)
Because of its radical simplicity, this little table is deceptively difficult to knock off. EVERY ASPECT of this radically reductive table IS the "label".
All of the variables and materials are even HARDER to fake, because each is so much more "seen" and objectified. Because that is all there is to look at, there is nowhere for a wrong move to hide.
Blocked wood solid core (or correct era plywood) seen at "honest" edge
Proper bevel degree and thickness of top
laminate material or wood top
laminate material or paint on the underside
Steel rod thicknesses and proper bend severity at corners
Shape and flatness of mounting tabs at ends of rods where top attaches
Zinc, chrome or Black coating to rod
dimensions and proportions
Patina of time (lest we forget)
Label
Nowhere for a wrong move to hide.


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objectworship
(@objectworship)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1184
15/07/2014 12:00 am  

BUT
there are also anomalies.


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objectworship
(@objectworship)
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Posts: 1184
15/07/2014 12:23 am  

For Example
This came out of the factory this way. The top/edges are not standard. Sometimes irregularities happen.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
15/07/2014 12:41 am  

all bets are off once we get ...
all bets are off once we get into red rod
(don't take that the wrong way OW. I just thought you were referring to that earlier solid core one of yours with the rounder rod corners, and was surprised to see the red one.) Most of the knockoffs do tend to be about the earlier versions though.
Red rod seems in a whole other category than your garden variety anomaly. I think we are winding our way back to the authenticity question as posed by Heath now. (i.e; an earnest and well made knock off vs a signed version that is perhaps less true to the original design, etc) And the question of originality altogether.
As in when did the red rod come along? It certainly seems to have happened sometime well after Eames' death. (90's or later?) So even if it is Herman Miller, at what point is it no longer an Eames design?
I know you like red though.
rEdRUm


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Mark
 Mark
(@mark)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 4586
15/07/2014 1:29 am  

Oh I like that red rod base!
Drinks anyone?
Aunt M.
Tonight's special at the Stanley is rEdRUm and cola. Order up.


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objectworship
(@objectworship)
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Posts: 1184
15/07/2014 1:38 am  

.......
2013 "Select", I suppose it can be called a B-stock variant. These variants happen in all time periods. The base is actually more orange than red (red-orange).
A lot of hot air gets blown about the "Select" thing.
I think the only question is what about the rest of the spectrum?
I"m surprised that the tables (and/or knock-offs) haven't been produced in more colors yet. As demonstrated above, the base is the easiest and cheapest part of the table to produce, and it's super easy to powder coat too. Let's at least have purple, please. As far as "originality" goes, more diverse color options are a good thing. Anyone who thinks Charles Eames would get all huffy about that is having an irrational emotional reaction to some other part of the premise.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
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Posts: 1366
15/07/2014 1:43 am  

it matters not
what Charles Eames reaction (to someone else's choice) would have been.
We could speculate about that all day, but it does not enter into the equation.
I'm just saying that he didn't do it. It's that simple.
I like the look of all kinds of things, but that is a different issue. I don't have any trouble with "the look" of red wire.
I'm sure Charles may have liked purple too, but he didn't do that to an LTR either. That's all I am saying.
Mark might like red-meat high balls, but does that...
Oh well, there went my point. Good bye point..
Im kidding Mark. reDruM


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norm
 norm
(@norm)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 227
15/07/2014 5:47 am  

Not to say this list is the...
Not to say this list is the last word...
"Blocked wood solid core (or correct era plywood) seen at "honest" edge
Proper bevel degree and thickness of top
laminate material or wood top
laminate material or paint on the underside
Steel rod thicknesses and proper bend severity at corners
Shape and flatness of mounting tabs at ends of rods where top attaches
Zinc, chrome or Black coating to rod
dimensions and proportions
Patina of time (lest we forget)
Label"
Labels are rare from what I've seen
Underside with laminate, paint OR Matching veneer.
I'm sure a few other variables as well?
To the original debate I would say it isn't an issue. No one will mistake his ltr for a Heman Miller (vintage) production.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
15/07/2014 6:31 am  

hey norm
Thanks for the update to the list. And I am sure there is more.
Yes, for awhile (I believe early on) some had matching veneer on the underside, or matching whatever happened to be on top, laminate included.
The first generation thick ply edge ones often have the small black and white rectangular label on a black painted underside. The second generation blocked wood core tables had a couple of different kinds of brownish laminate, and sometimes a small brown thin rectangle label with "Herman Miller" in white or cream color letters. I think there might be some of the second generation with another bottom type also?
But you are correct that many of both generations do not carry labels. Just like some of the rope shells (and Venice 2nd generation shells that hardly ever had the red labels)
I know there must be more.
As Objectworship said, there are definitely anomalies. Even when you narrow it down to the first two generations.


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norm
 norm
(@norm)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 227
15/07/2014 3:17 pm  

I have a matching pair of sol...
I have a matching pair of solid wood core with maple veneer top and underside. Zinc base.
I really like these tables as well and if I couldn't swing the coin for a vintage example (and had the skills) I would fabricate my own as opposed to buying a chinese replica.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
15/07/2014 9:16 pm  

yeah but norm
if you WERE to attempt a knock off, and you did your research and paid proper attention to all of the details, you probably wouldn't end up saving anything more than if you patiently waited for a poorly listed and photographed one to come along on an ebay auction that ends in the wee hours.
So yours are the second generation solid core tops with the blocked wood showing at the ends? Those with wood tops are beautiful, and you don't see those every day. I am still waiting for one of those to come along...
I have three white laminate 2nd generation solid wood core LTRs, and a couple of first generation ones with the early thick plywood edge. But one of the early ones has a large "crater" in the center of the top from water damage. I still love it and use it though. I'll just call it "patina". heh


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difeliciantonio
(@difeliciantonio)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 291
16/07/2014 6:05 am  

Made some better tops today...
Made some better tops today since Sunday through Tuesday are my days off.
That 15 degree chamfer bit work real nice


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