Barrys sofa thread reminded me of an interview I heard yesterday with Dana Thomas, the author of this book...
Sunday Times
'Fearless...What this book does is redress the balance in favour of the consumer'
Synopsis
Once upon a time, luxury was only available to the rarefied and aristocratic world of old money and royalty; luxury wasn't simply a product, it was a lifestyle. It denoted a history of tradition, superior quality and a pampered buying experience. Today's luxury marketplace would be virtually unrecognizable to the old-world elite. Gone are the family-owned businesses that were dedicated to integrity and quality; the industry is now run by massive corporations that focus only on growth, visibility, brand-awareness, advertising and above all, profits. Quality has long since been replaced by quantity, and almost all of the manufacturing has been outsourced to large factories in places like China, where your expensive luxury brand handbag is being put together right next to a one from a mass-market label that costs substantially less. Dana Thomas has dug deep into the dark side of the luxury industry, finding out all the secrets that Prada, Gucci and Burberry don't want you to know. She visits the last bastion of old-world luxury - Hermes, which is still based in France, where old-fashioned highly skilled artisans still make their coveted Kelly and Birkin bags by hand.
But most of its competitors in the luxury fashion business have outsourced; they've gone corporate, they've gone large scale. Thomas takes us right into the action, from the scent factories in Grasse that manufacture Christian Dior and Prada perfumes, to the crowded factories in China, full of workers gluing together "Made in Italy" bags by the thousands. Thomas goes from duty-free luxury emporiums in Hawaii, packed with tourists clamoring for discounts on their favorite luxury brands, to Japan, the most luxury brand-conscious society in the world. She takes us behind the scenes in the weeks leading up to the Oscars to witness the wheeling and dealing of luxury brands to dress stars for the red carpet. She meets middle-class Midwesterners who spend their entire paychecks on Louis Vuitton bags and Japanese collectors who enshrine hundreds of coveted Hermes and Gucci items in their tiny Tokyo apartments. Thomas has interviewed corporate heads and factory workers, the old-money, old-luxury clients and the new luxury-obsessed middle-class consumer in order to paint a surprising picture of "New Luxury" today.
Although I could never have afforded these goods and can't really now it is sad to see the absolute pinnacle of craftsmanship being eroded, I try and do the right thing most of the time but I wonder how much beauty we would never have had if we'd been a more egalitarian lot.
Every amber room must have its Tsar.
Just found this on something called "veblen goods" ,pretty intersting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deluxe-How-Luxury-Lost-Lustre/dp/0713998237
Great article
What's funny is some of these ultra expensive sofas and lounge chairs were designed by designers working with company to make "affordable" pieces that used (then) modern technology.
I read that Charles and Ray Eames designed the ESU systems to be bright, clever and affordable. Now they're selling for propotionally high prices.
So, the relative economy of the intended prices of a lot of these pieces are not on-line with what the current manufacturer companies are charging for them!
Nice you open this threat!!!
Very interesting,
Also thinking, and trying to understand that.
But many different things to study?
Velven good
Snob value
Scarcity value
Perceived value
I also try to understand, and find interesting how in the life of a product one that born as luxury dead as a mass product, or more interesting how born as alternative or a ?poor? product ended as a luxury.
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Its ironic they way things have turned out, but it makes me wonder just how many of the greats really tried to make furniture that was affordable, Eames have been hijacked the worst I think, but all the others really only gave lip service to the idea of affordability, it was allways secondary to the design.
If luxury is being democratised (bit of an oxymoron there...)whats new for the seriously cashed up, where do they go to get what they used to without a bunch of oinks jamming the shop door?
There is another book on luxury out atm and bugger if I can't find it.
Gustava makes an intersting point, the reversal, I think victorian grooming kits for men are a type of object that have really lost value (I'm not sure though, more of a toothbrush in a bacpack kind of guy) but working the other way (cheap good marketed as luxury) are the Campana brothers for Edra, how are they regarded in South America Gustavo?
I Disagree
As I sometimes do. The topic of modernism and affordability makes me a bit nervous, as there is a tendency for people to take things wildly out of context, which creates a scenario of comparing apples to oranges.
First off - its inaccurate to paint all of modernism with an affordable brush. Only select people were targeting low cost furniture. Others were exploring a method of action, a systematic rationality, or simply doing what most of us today are trying to do - make a successful product and make a living from it.
For Barry's cited example, have the Eames been hijacked? I doubt it. They have been commodified, and their name has become a brand label; but much of what they designed still exists - for most intents - in its original function and price points..ish.
The plywood chairs run on the same price range as other comparable chairs of their era/design: Risom, Jacobsen, Cherner. The bucket chairs are reasonably priced for their quality compared to Ikea and Target rubbish. Sorry, Barry, I dont have an original price sheet for the ESUs for direct comparison. Even the Sofa Compact is only 3-4000$ these days. Thats about middle of the range for what you'd get at DWR.
However, from the Lounge chair onwards the Eames increasingly designed furnishings for a luxury market. The 670 was originally slated at $500 - thats $3800 today. Not surprisingly it currently retails for just about the same price. From the lounge chair on much of the Eames new furniture designs were direct commissions from specific clients: Time Life, Girard, etc. That Herman Miller could sell their furniture to others was gravy, but you shouldnt expect a piece with such a niche market to exist in the same pricepoint as something with a wider appeal. The Eames tweaked their existing products, but after the Time Life commission moved towards film and exhibition design.
As to other parts of modernism: International style wasnt ever considered affordable. Rational & minimal, yes. Mies himself said of the Barcelona chair: "...A chair for royalty...The chair had to be important, it had to be elegant and costly, it had to be monumental. In these circumstances, you just couldn't use a kitchen chair."
It is also important to remember that the Eames were optimists and idealists. But we dont live in an ideal world. Many Eames products went over budget, or were scrapped completely because of production costs/market issues. It is perhaps a bit misleading that the Eames are most remembered for their idealism rather than their contextual accomplishments. The ideal was to achieve a high quality product for low costs. Keep in mind, this is the same goal IKEA has. The Eames succeeded mostly in the high quality part. IKEA has succeeded mostly in the low cost.
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what does luxury mean now though? Whats your personal idea of luxury?
For me its very simple, whisky, Anna Karenina and a reading lamp next to my bed. I have a luxurious view of a valley on my walk to the shops. Its about feeling and experiences, luxuriating in something that doesn't have to be unethical.
How someone luxuriates in a pair of Prada sunglasses I can't understand.
Heath
Are you confusing appreciation and indulgence with luxury? Is appreciating a sunset in any way putting you at a higher socioeconomic class?
A Wikipedia link to follow (as everyone knows, Wikipedia is the source of all things that are true).
I particularly liked the Market Characteristics, and Luxury Brands entries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxury_good
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I peg things on subjective value rather than price, part of a personal definition of luxury. Indulgence, appreciattion and luxury are all part of the same parcel, you can't have one without the other.
As I've said before I think I lead a richer life than many people with more money than me, as the book explains, luxury and money are'nt as entwined as they used to be.
I think luxury began with sensitive people understanding the VALUE of things (silk, persian carpets etc etc) rather than the price, its the merchant class not the super wealthy who created the idea of luxury as we know it.
Whats luxurious to you?
http://www.slowfood.com/
Duh, no Eames has not been hijacked,......
it's just that the concept of Eames and Nelson making finely designed furniture at popular prices has gone out the windows with the ever increasing prices. Probably many are necessary, but I'd bet Charles and Ray would not be happy how much an ESU-400 costs nowadays.
There's SOMETHING to be said about the thoughts that MAYBE, just maybe, the Herman Miller's, Knoll's, Fritz Hansen's and Cassina's of the world are overpricing their stuff. Perhaps not, but it's something to consider....
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There is nothing much to prevent manufacturers manipulating prices and perceptions after the designers death, witness mad things like Eames annivaersary tables, those bloody elephants, yellow and silver PK chairs, the list goes on, PP Moebler sprayed some Wegner chairs bright pink, purple and blue a while ago. If it was my design and that had occured I'd feel hijacked, betrayed whatever you want to call it.
I get upset over prices too Barry but thats just life, there are things I can't afford, HM etc etc aren't here to please me or you they are there to make money in whatever they see as the best way to do it, by all means write to them and protest, I totally agree a lot of stuff is over-priced and not marketed in the spirit that it should be but other than making a complaint theres not much you can do, other than buy vintage.
At first glance a particular chair might seem overpriced but when you take into account that its made in a first world country, from good quality materials, with reasonably paid labour and under a large marketing budget things can stop looking so overpriced, were all so used to cheaper imported electronics and clothes that it throws the cost of this furniture into real contrast.
There was a threat about "glamour"
There was a threat about "glamour", or something like that, where everybody gave his/her definition on that, most of them maybe are closer to the ,,general definition of luxurity,,. There, Heath gave yours, (that was the same that here), and there yours were better understated. (for comparison).
I was trying to find it but I can't!
Does anybody remember which is?, Heath maybe?
Any of us can cite text book...
Any of us can cite text book definitions easy enough, but to me, right off the top of my head, a luxury good is an unnecessary indulgence in something either over-engineered or otherwise overstuffed in some way. It's sumptuous fluff and puff. A high dollar distraction, suffused in vainglorious regalia.
What Heath refers to, in my mind, is high end, or quality goods, which are goods designed by a master and crafted with pride, like say, a beautiful Gibson guitar or some nice solid walnut shelving.
Totally different, at least in my mind.
The view of the valley Heath treasures is a reflection of an enlightened mind. No kidding -- this is really where it's at. If we could live outdoors on some beautiful vista where it was perpetually spring, who the hell wouldn't? Since we can't have that, we put together spaces filled with man-made creations inspired by such impossibilities.
At least that's how I see it.
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