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Armchair - is it worth repairing? Who made it?  

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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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28/11/2020 9:10 pm  

Well, the right to a design is a legally interesting thing.  Such things differ by jurisdiction, but generally speaking any piece of furniture of the era that was produced at a volume greater than one (or perhaps 10) lost any opportunity at copyright and the other forms of rights expired long ago.  So the designs can be reproduced commercially and legally.  Where it gets complicated is that the designer’s name can be trademarked for use in selling new furniture, so it can be a problem to make an Erik Buck/Buch stool and sell it as Erik Buck.  So there really is no such legally enforceable “license” to produce EB furniture and hence no sort of registry.  Consider it more like an “official endorsement” and the rights to use a trademark.  If you want something registered, try looking for a trademark.  


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mark737
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29/11/2020 12:09 am  

According to some articles I've read (like the one linked below), The UK changed their laws in 2016 to match other EU countries , making it illegal to make, import, or sell replica furniture.  And copyrights on furniture extend 70 years from the death of the designer in EU countries.  So, for Mr Buch, that would be until at least 2043, assuming he died in 1973, which is not confirmed.   Unless I'm misreading these reports. 

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/08/04/10-popular-furniture-replicas-outlawed-uk-copyright-eames-hans-wegner-arne-jacobsen/


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mvc
 mvc
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29/11/2020 1:43 pm  

@mark737

Website of the Danish Patent and Trademark Office: https://www.dkpto.dk/

I didn't feel like translating the following article, so Mr Sundar Pichai is responsible for it.

Danish design
A design describes the appearance or shape of a product.

A design can be protected in Denmark by registering with the Danish Patent and Trademark Office (Patent- og Varemærkestyrelsen). This privilege applies retrospectively until the day the application is submitted. Registration gives the right to prohibit others from using the design for any product.

Registration can be requested using a form or online by submitting image documentation. The application fee is around EUR 160.

The protection is valid for the requested period of 5 years and can be extended again and again for 5 years after application, but no more than 25 years. If you wish to have your design protected across Europe, you can apply for this at the Danish Patent and Trademark Office or directly at the Office for Harmonization in the Internal Market in Alicante. You will receive a Europe-wide design protection even without registration just through use. However, this legal protection only lasts three years after the initial publication. After this period, no further protection is possible; You can then no longer apply for registration. However, the three-year protection can be sufficient in some fast-moving areas.

Copyright in Denmark
Copyright concerns the protection of literary and artistic works. Photographs are also covered by the law ("ophavslov").

Danish copyright law is not dependent on public registration. It is established directly by the production of the work itself as soon as it is presented to the general public. This gives the author the right to decide on his work, e.g. in what way it is made available to the general public or how it is to be reproduced.

The right does not expire until 70 years after the death of the creator or the longest living in a community of creators.

Status: February 2016

 


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mark737
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29/11/2020 4:31 pm  

Thanks.  Based on reports of various court decisions on this subject,  copyright protection (in the EU) comes down to the "level of originality" of the item.  For example, a simple wood chair with four legs and a backrest would not be protected, but more original works like Arne Jacobsen's Egg Chair or Henningsen's Artichoke Lamp would be.  Obviously the level of originality is a subjective measure, which is why it is left to the courts to decide.  I'm not sure if a chair like Buch's model 49 would be considered original enough to qualify, but I'm pretty sure his model 61 stools would be.   


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mvc
 mvc
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29/11/2020 4:58 pm  

Yes, that's what I think too.


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Herringbone
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02/12/2020 10:36 pm  

By the way: It is not true that nobody knows nothing about Erik Buchs life. Just saying. 

"People buy a chair, and they don't really care who designed it." (Arne Jacobsen)


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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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06/12/2020 5:48 am  

@herringbone according to some very self-important people you probably don’t exist, remember?  


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leif ericson - Zephyr Renner
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06/12/2020 5:54 am  

@mark737 based on the research I have done on the topic of copyright it is doubtful that any piece of furniture from the era produced in a volume above 10-25 units would meet the requirements for current copyright.  This would mean virtually all of Wegner, Juhl, Mogensen, Jacobsen and all the rest have no copyright protection. Maybe certain pieces that were produced with a great deal of artistry and in very few units might meet the threshold. 


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mark737
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06/12/2020 4:59 pm  

@leif-ericson  It seems that more recent court rulings have been trending against the replica makers in favor of the original designers and their heirs.  For example, the Cofemel decision (Sept 2019) by the EU's Court of Justice should make it much easier to claim copyright protection in EU nations.  

https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-insights/no-need-for-a-pretty-face-copyright-protection-for-functional-designs/

The US has always had more difficult criteria for protection but that hasn't stopped companies like Herman Miller and Knoll from going after replica makers and retailers.  HM filed suit against replica web retailer Interior Icons in April for trademark infringement for selling Eames, Nelson and Noguchi knock-offs.  And I know Knoll sued Gordon International in 2005 but I guess they didn't win because Gordon is still selling Mies designs supposedly licensed to Knoll, including the MR chairs recently discussed in another thread.  


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wesemael
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07/12/2020 11:48 am  

@mark 737 i am sure you are aware there is also a so called "model ?" right after a design   is registrated it is protected

with this  form of the protection is easier to prove  a infringment (inbreuk) than with  copyright  however it last max 25 years

https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/designs-in-the-european-union

 

 


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mark737
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07/12/2020 3:58 pm  

@wesemael  Thanks for that.   Regarding the replica market for the furniture we discuss here (well past 25 years old), it seems copyright and trade dress protections are the most relevant.  I'm no attorney and don't pretend to understand the subtleties of IP law, but it appears that recent court decisions in the EU and US will make it riskier to be a replica furniture maker or dealer.    

Trade dress, which can provide protection for the life of a product,  covers areas such as packaging and product design.  But to qualify, the design must acquire "secondary meaning".  Secondary meaning develops over time as consumers come to view the design not just as aesthetic features, but as an indication that the product comes from a single source.  Basically, a piece of furniture must go beyond being an artistic or original design, it has to reach something like iconic status.  This is what Herman Miller is arguing in their lawsuit.  If anyone is interested in reading their argument, here is a link to the PDF of the lawsuit filing:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.miwd.97485/gov.uscourts.miwd.97485.1.0.pdf


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wesemael
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07/12/2020 4:14 pm  

@mark 737 I do understand however the strange thing is the long lasting protection is mostly in the interest off the industry (and maybe the funiture adept who loves purity like the members here?) rather than the designer   I researched the archive off rudolf wolf and he used "model" protection in the 50/60 in the netherlands  Would he have guessed his designs were loved long after his dead and 25 years? 


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mark737
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07/12/2020 5:51 pm  

@wesemael  Yes, that's a good point.  I'm sure very few designers thought their furniture would be selling for so much 50-100 years in the future.  It would be interesting to know what sort of commission the Eames heirs earn for every $8,000 lounge chair Herman Miller sells.  I bet it's not much.      


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_
 _
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08/12/2020 5:51 pm  

This is from the 1998 book Classic Herman Miller by Leslie Pina from Schiffer books...I don't know what is the current percentage of their royalties today.

1607446289-thumbnail_20201208_090041_2_resized.jpg

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mark737
(@mark737)
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08/12/2020 7:07 pm  

Wow, $15K a month in 1974 would be $950k per year adjusted for inflation, not too shabby.  I read that Herman Miller signed a new agreement with the family in 1990 affirming their ownership of the EAMES trademark but have not seen anything that breaks down the royalty structure.   


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