Nice to know...
But honestly, you're making yourself look silly. You've no idea whether that base is proper or not. Nor do I. But considering the media as well as the seller, I think skepticism is the logical conclusion. The fact that you've supposedly seen all of one? of these examples amidst hundreds of examples says it all really. If you're comfortable, great. Doesn't mean everyone else is as well.
If you really want to "drop some knowledge" perhaps you should think about producing some literature or even a link to support your one man theory.
I have
been following along and now I am more confused than ever. Tynell says rounded tabs = good. Others say no. Pegboard posts 3 pics of different generation examples - all square tabs. Seems to support the "no" camp. But then in show and tell thread, Pegboard posts pics of earliest all original RAR - with rounded tabs. Tynell for the win? Perhaps? Or is the real tell of originality something other than tab shape since it seems that both can be correct. aging of the zinc coating perhaps (Also See show and tell thread)?
glassartist
My thoughts on the RAR in question are this:
While I have had, and have seen, quite a number of original vintage Eames rockers (not hundreds... that is a hell of a lot of chairs, but enough to know something about them) almost all of the vintage rockers have had tabs that attach the base to the shell with squared off edges.
The 1st generation rocker I posted images of has rounded edges (also, note that they are not uniform) and I know without a doubt that chair is 100% original and vintage, having never even had the base removed or altered in any way (notice the larger screw heads?). Also, notice the dimpled oval shape on the tab? I've personally never seen a knock-off with that shape on the tab.
Like glides and boots that appear on different generations of Zenith chairs with X bases, it's entirely plausible that the tabs affixed to bases could have blended from one generation to the next. Just because they changed the wire configuration does not mean that they changed the tab, or perhaps they used up the rounded tabs before moving on to a new batch that was squared off.
So the base may well be correct (that does not mean it is original to the shell, buy the way). The armshell certainly looks correct... except for the label. While I can't say with any certainly that the label is a new reproduction, It does look VERY bright and clean, not to mention in perfect condition with no scuffs scratches, or marring of any kind. Expo67 pointed to issues with the label (registration, etc) but I'm not sure that is a serious defect. When I look at my early RAR, which is in the most perfect condition that is likely to be found, the label is still slightly yellowed.
All the nit-picking aside, I think the larger point is that if a seller exhibits dubious practices, or misrepresents things, they destroy their credibility. If someone has lied to you once, why would you think they would not do it again? When doing business, I think that the most important thing a person has is their integrity and their credibility. Honest mistakes are just that, mistakes. And everyone makes mistakes. But if someone knowingly misrepresents something, it's easy to see why people would question them from that point on.
And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how that point can be disputed.
Thanks for the pic DudeDah
I see your label is affixed crooked, which is very common as is the fact that it has yellowed significaty. I also see that your chair is the very first generation with the struts that go to the back and that the screws have the larger head which is more sloped with a very thin edge.
I've had three RAR with the 1st genration base and they all had the same screws.
Pegboard
I have known you through this forum for years now and have come to see you as a person who is sharing and honest. While I appreciate the further explanation, I first take your chair at your word so am confidant that both types of tabs can be original. My post was in defense of Tynell, who seems to be correct anyway about the tabs. Secondly, I wanted to suggest a better tell about age, that being oxidation of the zinc coating (suggested to me by your mention of it in the show and tell thread). I have never seen any zinc coated item of that age that did not have obvious signs of aging. Lastly I was not actually commenting on the sketchy dealings of the thread subjects. I take that as a given, considering repeated evidence. In sum I was merely trying to help clear up the Lunchbox vs. Tynell business and suggest an alternative tell. Good to chat with you again. It's been a while.
You seem to be missing the point, glassartist...
The rounded tabs are synonymous with the original, first production design. These were only produced for a matter of months. If you'll look at my first replies, you'll see me alluding to this. Every true first production I've seen or seen catalogued show the rounded tabs, as well as the wider headed hardware. The rift is with any productions after the first productions displaying rounded tabs.
I hope I am not
But I an agreeing with Pegboard that it is entirely plausible that a pile of early rounded tabs were used up on the second base configuration rather than be scrapped for no reason when the first base design was changed. It might even explain why Tynell has perhaps only seen one (there weren't so many rounded ones left after the wire design was changed). I certainly would not start using new square ones till I had used up the old ones if I was making them. I also have heard of other instances of this apparent "use up the old parts that still work" concept with other furniture in the past. Honestly, It seems less likely that they would run out of rounded tabs exactly when they changed another design feature of this chair. I can see the the above concept as natural fallout of how things change in design and production. I am entirely aware that you are correct that normal for the second design is the square tab. And I am not even arguing that the specific base in question is genuine or not. I just think it is entirely normal to have mixed production spill over and that is why I suggested aging as a better place for analysis.
and
And yes I can see Tynell having had a second issue base with first issue tabs. I suppose it is just a matter of do you believe him or not. I see no reason not to on the tab point. I do both design and production. It is normal to make a pile of one thing and then to move on to the next. Uneven amounts are par for the course. I would certainly like to see a close up of the suspect base in question to see better the aging, though I do see some pitting. The tab welds look original too. Original base? Sure, why not? Original to the chair? I can't see the imprint on the mounts clearly enough in the pic.
I agree it is entirely...
I agree it is entirely plausible the rounded tabs were used also on 2nd generation Zenith rockers.
And to complicate things further...
My 1st generation RAR (with the struts which extend to the back) has rounded tabs, which are WIDER than any of the other 1st gen RAR's seen in this thread or the 'show and tell' thread. They are roughly the same width as the metal washers between the tabs and rubber shockmounts.
Also this early base doesn't have the slight bend to the base between the back shock mounts. It is completely straight.
So maybe there are more generations of the Zenith bases than 2 or even 3?
1. The (prototype?) X-strut base of the RAR featured in MOMA's collection.
2. 1st gen X-strut base/Wide Rounded tabs/No bend between back shock mounts.
3. 1st gen X-strut base/Rounded tabs/Bend between back shock mounts.
4. 2nd gen base/Rounded tabs/Bend between back shock mounts.
5. 2nd gen base/Squared tabs/Bend between back shock mounts.
And yes, I'm a nerd.
http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A...
And concerning Modernesia's...
And concerning Modernesia's rocker on Ebay, the base looks original to me, but like Tynellbuyer points out, the runners look like the have possibly been replaced or refinished.
The screws holding runners to the base are not 'recessed' on most early rockers I've seen. Instead normally the screw head should lay flat with the surface of the runner.
But maybe this is also something which changed between the different generations of the RAR?
I think the most obviously faked part of Modernesias chair is the label which looks too perfect and bright white to me. All of my Zenith chairs with intact labels have yellowed over the years.
It appears that making old...
It appears that making old fashioned water-slide decals (and perhaps, fake labels) is something that can be done at home these days, either by using a color computer printer, or a photo-silk screen process. The water-slide decal paper is something you can buy online.
http://www.tangopapadecals.com/Make%20your%20own%20decals%20101.pdf
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