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Wegner "The Chair" ...
 

Wegner "The Chair" Real Or Repro?  

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lapo
 lapo
(@lapo)
Eminent Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 21
02/09/2016 4:38 pm  

I got it at a flea market. It lacks the Wegner joints in the back rest and it's unbranded on the bottom. The legs were also cut down at some point by some doof. I've never had one before, so I defer to those who know more than I 🙂 Thank you!
<img class="wpforo-default-imag


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Zephyr
(@zephyr)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 2026 years ago
Posts: 652
02/09/2016 6:08 pm  

I am far from an expert, but it looks like a knock-off to me.
Main problem is the back rest; it is lacking the characteristic finger joints between the back and arms. This is a center piece of the design, and I cannot imagine this being left out on any iteration of this chair. Also, all of the cane seats are typically matched with a cane-wrapped back. This chair lacks the cane back, and any evidence that it was ever there (not conclusive as it could have been refinished). Also, in the middle back of the seat, on the caned versions, there is typically a double wrap that covers the whole thickness of the seat support, and ties into the underside, front-back support.
Also, the stiles/legs don't seem to have the proper proportions and taper. A bit too visually heavy. **edit- forgot that you said they were cut, which might explain the incorrect proportions**
Finally, seems like the arms have a bit of concavity to them. I think the original is straight across.
It is a nicer knock-off, but definitely not the real thing. ***I shouldn't say definitely, becasue as I stated above, I am far from and expert***


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Spanky
(@spanky)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4376
02/09/2016 6:12 pm  

It looks pretty good to me as far as being real--I'm in the process of reweaving an early, genuine one so I'm pretty familiar with the chair at this point.
Does the backrest have small holes along the underside? I can sort of make out some hole-like dots in that one photo but maybe not. The backs on the cane version of this chair were wrapped in cane and they have holes every few inches in the underside where the ends of strands were anchored and a new strand joined. The back on the one I'm doing is a different wood species than the rest of the chair and is lighter, though that may be in part because it was not exposed to light and whatever the owner used to "polish" the chair for many years (something that had pigment added). The back on yours looks like it matches the rest of the chair pretty well, but your photos don't show fine details like wood grain so it's hard to say.
Another person here (tchp) wrote up a detailed account of restoring one of these and he posted at least one very good photo of the back of his. The joint is clearly visible. It's an exposed, squared-off tenon. My photo here is not as good because of the residue from the old cane, but you can make it out. Can't tell from your photos if your chair has this.
I don't know if any of these were unmarked. I think other early Wegner chairs weren't---I seem to remember reading that. Others will know better than I do about that, though.
That's a real shame about the legs.


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cdsilva
(@cdsilva)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2051
02/09/2016 7:00 pm  

Zephyr,
You are correct in that it is not a Johannes Hansen made chair. However, type in "JH 501 chair" in Google, and you will see numerous examples of cane seats with wood backs. The cane back with cane seat was the original design. As spanky has already shown, these chairs had the squared off joints that were hidden by the cane wrapping. Wegner then refined the design to have the now-signature zig-zag finger joints which were stronger than the original. As they looked nicer, the cane wrapping was eliminated. I can't recall the exact date this change was made, but I think it was around (at) the same time as the leather seat 503 variation a couple of years later.
Even with the chopped legs, the wood frame proportions/shapes look a little off.
I've posted this photo before, but here is a 1960s display that shows the numerous knockoffs of The Chair even back then.


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Zephyr
(@zephyr)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 2026 years ago
Posts: 652
02/09/2016 10:22 pm  

I definitely lack the knowledge of the history, and have a lot to learn yet! I will certainly defer to more knowledgeable individuals on this forum than I, of which there are many.
Still, something just doesn't seem right with it. The back of the chair in question, does not even have course box joints. It looks like the back is 2 edge-joined pieces, which are probably dowel-joined to the arms. The pointy-ness of the arm fronts also seems a bit overly dramatic, compared to other examples of this chair that I have seen.


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cdsilva
(@cdsilva)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2051
02/09/2016 10:27 pm  

I think you misunderstood my post. I agree that this chair is a knockoff.
But the fact that it has a cane seat without a cane back is NOT a clue that indicates it's a knockoff.


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Zephyr
(@zephyr)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 2026 years ago
Posts: 652
02/09/2016 10:52 pm  

No, I got what you were saying. I just wanted to be clear that I defer to you, and others with more historical background when it comes to the evidence, and also point out a couple more observations that were bothering me about the chair.
In re-reading the post, I can see that the segue between these two points, came across as me still trying to prove a point, to which we both clearly, already agreed upon.


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cdsilva
(@cdsilva)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2051
02/09/2016 10:59 pm  

speaking of Wegner chairs, I'm surprised you passed on the J16 FDB rocker that was on eBay earlier this week. Located in Madison, it was a good price for what appeared to be very good condition.


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Zephyr
(@zephyr)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 2026 years ago
Posts: 652
02/09/2016 11:08 pm  

I do*n'*t follow ebay much, but I should probably start...
*More than anything, I like to find the cheap, ugly, beat-up CL pieces that I can then practice restoring/refinishing, enjoy for a time, then sell. It is more satisfying to me than just dropping cash on the exact pieces that I want .... not that I ever have the cash for the pieces I want, anyways...*
*edit


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cdsilva
(@cdsilva)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2051
02/09/2016 11:11 pm  

well it got zero bids, so it's still available. Do a search for completed auctions for a Wegner J16 and ask the seller if you can look at it in person. You could then make an offer for less than the initial bid. With eBay fees of 10%, along with a 3% Paypal fee on top, I think the seller would be quite happy to get cash in person.


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Spanky
(@spanky)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4376
03/09/2016 12:30 am  

I had to go look at the J16--it says it's been "repainted poorly" and in the photo of the top of the back (front and back views) you can see what he's talking about. The seat looks pretty bad too--worth seeing of a soap treatment might make it look presentable, but i would not buy it counting on the seat not needing a re-do.
If you contact the seller through ebay, do not even hint at making an offer outside of the ebay venue. Ebay monitors seller/buyer correspondence and they will suspend users who violate their terms (i.e., using ebay to advertise goods available off ebay---buyers too, maybe.)
cdsilva, thanks---I didn't know that the backs on later cane seat round chairs were not wrapped! Interesting.


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cdsilva
(@cdsilva)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2051
03/09/2016 12:37 am  

Here is the 501 from the 1970 JH catalog. Interestingly enough, this model is not in the 1950s JH catalog, only the leather seat 503.
I did not realize that the cane seat version ever went out of production for JH.


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