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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
20/08/2008 11:39 am  

What are the pros and cons of ABS plastic?

Is ABS pressure injected into a mould, or laid down like fiberglass and carbon fiber?

I continue on my quest for the perfect boat.

I find that a boat manufacturer with a large share of the market in Finland called Terhi makes fishing and skiing boats up to 20+ feet long entirely of ABS plastic. But they do not sell them in North America. ABS is claimed to be much stronger and lighter than fiberglass. And it is supposedly ridiculously easy to repair holes in it.

Some kayaks and small fishing boats are made in USA from ABS, but no major North American manufacturers make boats out of ABS that I have found so far. Why aren't boats made of ABS in North America?

Is ABS plastic used in furniture?

I know ABS is not new, but I just have never paid attention to it before.

If Terhi boats are as exceptional as some have told me, then maybe North America needs some larger ABS boats.

http://www.terhi.fi/english


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
20/08/2008 11:50 am  

Note: What with Arctic Ice coverage reputedly 30% greater than last year...
we can forget ice caps melting soon and get on with having fun on the water. Those wild and crazy Finns are.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/15/goddard_arctic_ice_mystery/


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Robert Leach
(@robertleach1960yahoo-co-uk)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3212
20/08/2008 3:38 pm  

I
believe this chair by Robin Day was the first ABS chair


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jesgord
(@jesgord)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1879
20/08/2008 11:13 pm  

White ABS yellows over...
White ABS yellows over time.....everything else you need to know is in the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abs_plastic


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
21/08/2008 12:03 am  

jesgord...
ABS is even less green than I expected. Thanks for the link.
1 kg of ABS requires 2 kgs of oil.
And there seems to be a lot of nasty stuff used to create it and a lot of energy spent to refine it.
On the other hand, it supposedly makes lighter boats that use less fuel and last longer, both of which should act to reduce the carbon foot print.
And creating fiber glass and the resins certainly are terrible.
Its beginning to look like the future of boating should be a return to wood surfaced with an acrylic seal.
Very interesting.


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jesgord
(@jesgord)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1879
21/08/2008 1:07 am  

The problem with wood, even...
The problem with wood, even with an acrylic seal, is maintenance. Here on the East Coast of the US, you will find many old wooden boats in freshwater (lakes, rivers, etc.) Rarely do you see wood powerboats in the salt water areas. I've had boats made from aluminum and fiberglass. There must be a reason these materials have been popular for so many years.
My family has had several Grady White boats. As far as I'm concerned, they are the best small to medium size fishing boats around!
These days I have a 1968 robin's egg blue fiberglass Starcraft. It's a Great looking, retro boat but lacks some features of its modern counterparts.
http://www.gradywhite.com/


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SDR
 SDR
(@sdr)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 6462
21/08/2008 2:03 am  

Boston Whaler
has been around for a long time. What are the boats made of, and do they have a good reputation ?


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jesgord
(@jesgord)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1879
21/08/2008 4:43 am  

Boston Whaler's are made of...
Boston Whaler's are made of fiberglass and are great boats. They are known for there tri-hull design. This is great for fresh water with small waves, but can be a problem in rougher waters. By their very nature, a tri-hull boat will have shallower gunwales than a v-hull boat of the same size. This can either be viewed as a plus or a minus. I, myself, have always been a proponent of v-hull design.


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
21/08/2008 1:43 pm  

robert1960...
Sorry I forgot to respond to the Robin Day chair you posted. It is a terrific chair! I like everything I have seen of Robin Day, so far...an exceptional talent.


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
21/08/2008 2:53 pm  

jesgord...
Your taste in boats is impeccable. Grady's are beautiful and dutiful.
Boston Whalers are likewise admirable.
If you like these two boat makers, you might also enjoy knowing about Arima if you have not already heard of the brand. Arima boats are specifically designed for the Pacific Northwest's brand of turbulent waters...constantly big northwesterly swells and treacherous sand bars near the mouths of river estuaries. Juigi Arima took a clever approach to boat building for this marine environment, when he left a major builder to start his own brand. He decided to build an extremely sea worthy small boat--the 15 feet long Sea Hunter--at a time when boats were beginning a phase of bigger is better analogous to the elephantiasis that struck auto transportation via the SUV craze. Arima has always tried to build the smallest boat possible, not the biggest. And while he has worked his way up the length chart over the year, all of his boats evidence remarkable elegance of design and a focus on function. Arima integrates the look and function of the Dory's high bow and the work boat's unadorned purposefulness in a fiberglass sport fishing boat. It has kept Arima boats from being the latest greatest thing to carry your bimbo's for a sun tan in while you fish and chomp a cigar, I suppose, but not every brand has to move to the center in its marketing. Arima has staid a niche boat. They are boats that REALLY ARE designed to do the most with the least for near coast salt water fishermen. At first glance, his boats seem not too special. But the more I study them them, the more I appreciate the thoughtfulness of his designs.
http://www.arimaboats.com/frames/index.htm


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
21/08/2008 2:55 pm  

pt.2
The little 15 footer has been from the beginning highly respected for steadily holding a trolling course in even the roughest seas and for taking the swells head on. And even this little 15 footer has a teeny, lockable cuddy cabin. And Arima's long standing determination to build rough water boats that require the least horse power motor possible is finally a very desirable marketing characteristic in the age of $4-5/gallon gasoline, not just a sound, practical approach. I would truly love it, if Toyota and Arima got together to build a marine hybrid and lead the marine power and boat industries out of their reliance on gas hogs. And Arima's all have v hulls for those that prefer them. His boats are not light, if you compare them to other boats the same length, but they are efficient. The idea is that any size of Arima can do what any other boat a foot longer can do. Hence, his 15 footer is lighter than another maker's 16 footer. And note here that I am a great one for always preferring a longer boat, other things equal. But with an Arima, other things are not equal. If you want to operate in rough water under control and with as much safety as is feasible, Arima's have a substantial reputation for doing just that. They are not for everyone, for everyone does not need to operate in rough water, but they are IMHO exceptional boats worth knowing about.


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NULL NULL
(@theandykahnyahoo-com)
New Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2
22/08/2008 4:39 am  

Arctic Ice
DC
By the way, by the end of the article you linked, the author acknowledged his mistake in comparing reports and agreed the ice level was only up ten percent from last year's record lows.
It could be a good time for investing in boats.


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NULL NULL
(@wsgatesix-netcom-com)
Prominent Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 181
22/08/2008 5:59 am  

funny about the misconceptions of wood...
"The problem with wood, even...
The problem with wood, even with an acrylic seal, is maintenance. Here on the East Coast of the US, you will find many old wooden boats in freshwater (lakes, rivers, etc.) Rarely do you see wood powerboats in the salt water areas. I've had boats made from aluminum and fiberglass. There must be a reason these materials have been popular for so many years."
Well, on the west coast you find many nice old wood hull boats on the saltwater.
It is freshwater left standing that is bad for wood boats...not saltwater.
With all the beautiful old boats on the market and some super deals, it would be a shame for anyone on this board with true design appreciation to ever buy a new boat.
Find a good old one and have it refitted/powered.


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koen
 koen
(@koen)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2054
22/08/2008 7:14 am  

I am not sure...
Contrary to Polyester with or without glass fibres or any other re-enforcement, ABS or Acryl Butadiene Styrene is a thermoplastic. It can be vacuum formed; pressure formed, twin sheet moulded, blown, extruded or injection moulded in the same way as most other thermoplastics.
With the unfortunate decline of P.V.C. (Polyvinylchloride) ABS has become the most common replacement for P.V.C. in grey water evacuation pipes. Basically everything under the sink is now A.B.S.
In furniture it was quite common ever since Kartell (the famous company started by Giulio Castelli and Anna Ferrieri)started to produce the Joe Colombo, Richard Sapper, Achille Castiglioni, Marco Zanuso etc. designs we all know so well. Giulio Castelli had studied chemical engineering in Milan with the inventor of polypropylene and later Nobel prize winner in chemistry, Giulio Natta. His wife Anna Ferriera was a talented architect. Their collaboration certainly set the standard for all future furniture design in thermoplastics.
In later years Kartell and others started to replace ABS by Polypropylene and more recently by Polycarbonate.
Is ABS a good choice for boats??
From a performance point of view the stiffer the material the faster the boat. ABS is certainly not a stiff as glass fibre re-enforced polyester (GRP). Both the polyester resin and the glass fibre are stiffer than ABS and the combination certainly is. Scratch resistance is an important part of the equation and although both are comparable there is one major disadvantage to the ABS. As with many thermoplastics it is easy to break a sheet of the material just by scratching it and than applying any force challenges the resistance to traction?and the ABS sheet will break. So?I am not convinced. Easy to repair? Not really because any damage must be glued and glue in this case is based on some solvent. Solvents have the tendency to stay inside the joint and migrate through the plastic, making it weak. This is a very common problem with amateur installed pipes.
The environmental ?foot print of glass re-enforced polyester is about twice that of ABS and that does not take into consideration the difference between the non recyclable GRP and the recyclable ABS, so yes it is more environmentally friendly. Again I am not convinced.


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dcwilson
(@dcwilson)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2358
22/08/2008 11:34 am  

andy kahn...
the Arctic ice cap is GROWING!!
Two scientists who looked at the data agreed. It is growing, not melting this year.
Old Testament flooding (the appeal to honorable Jews) and New Testament apocalypse (the appeal to honorable fundamentalist Christians): not gonna happen.
Buy a boat for pleasure, even sinful pleasure, if you must.
but not for catastrophic climate change.
Catastrophic climate change: not gonna happen.


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