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Signed 40' round ab...
 

Signed 40' round abstract painting on wood signed.. Any ideas...?  

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onegroovydude
(@onegroovydudegmail-com)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 327
27/08/2013 4:58 am  

No. I understand...
You can keep going. This time when I read it, I take it all in, instead of trying to figure out how I'm gonna contradict it. Now I'm talking nice this time, so please think of it as being projected that way.
I think in a way, (even though it never came across that way) that's what I was trying to say, was that I was buying off what I liked in a piece first personally, then worrying about profits later, so I almost can't get a sense of what is desirable for commercial value when I don't know what I'm buying.
Of all the items I've sold through my ebay store, I've only sold the same things a few times. Old Nintendo's, rc cars, lava lamps... Common things. But 90% of it has been all different from the very beginning on. It just happens to be desirable. Good luck, in a way.
Here's a good example, and I think you could look at this like in a student way. Here's how my mind is thinking.
I'm tooting along at the swap meet (just recently), and I come across 2 pink pottery chickens. The first thing I think is that I like the configuration of the bodies. Then I'm drawn to the colors, then the dots, and crudely drawn lines, and then the big unusual looking tails. I ask her her price, and she tells me.
I then flip them over to make sure they're not chipped, and see a signature. I can't make it out, but I don't care. I just really like the way they look. They have personality, so I decide to get them. I have no time to research them, because I have 3 swap meets to hit that morning, so I'm moving fast. The price is right, so let's take chance on what I see in them. No clue what they are, just neat.
I then post them here, only to find out they're made by a company called Chalice, and are from the 1940's - 1950's, and are really rare, and valuable. It's then that I hear the name Chalice for the first time, or learn who they are.
So, I guess I'm wondering how I could know what I was going to make on an item, or what the market would pay on something I knew absolutely nothing about, until someone told me here after I already got home with them? How can a person buy anything based on what it will translate into commercial value of, when they just see it for the first time in their life right then, and are clueless to the commercial value? I can understand if they know they are Chalice by the signature, then they know what they're working with, but what about when they don't?
Written in a respectful manner, and asking with a smile...:) Your thoughts please. Thank you.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
27/08/2013 5:53 am  

doesn't every collector go through that stage?
Your story reminds me of when I first started caring about getting some cool stuff for an empty house.
I didn't know any names or designers, and just went with fun shapes and lines and colors that I enjoyed. I won a few and lost a few when it came to finding out what stuff was.
There was definitely a time when I didn't know the difference between knock-offs or a higher end stuff. It was all just fun, and I didn't really care at that time. I miss those days of innocently buying stuff like a big ridiculous Eames-inspired beige leather arm chair just because it looked so goofy and was fun to sit in. I kept it for years.
Only later did I realize that some of the stuff I had chosen was really high quality, and some was just not. Just a learning curve like everybody has.
Once you know some info, its hard to view things the same way. Its hard not to see that a chair is a knock off, and start to value it less, and maybe enjoy it a little less too.
I know what you're gonna say now... that that is your whole point! And you want to remain open to the strange and unusual, and not get so refined that you start to see in more narrow terms and miss the weird amazing find.
I dont disagree with that.
I just don't believe that more awareness and knowledge or having a developed eye means you have to become narrow.
There are two kinds of intuition. One kind is already there, and another kind is "learned"-- and then gets digested, and then just folds in and becomes another part of your "natural instincts". It all becomes intuitive again.
My god, look at woody's stuff!
Do you feel like woody is narrow in any way, just because he knows tons of stuff? Of course not.
He's clearly kept his weirdness, IN SPITE of all his knowledge, and you will too.
I dont think you really were ever worried about getting too "polluted" by information and culture.
I think you just were using that argument to rationalize-- AND to give me shit! Because you LOVE to argue. LOL
SDR is right. We hate in others what we see in ourselves.


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Spanky
(@spanky)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4376
27/08/2013 6:10 am  

Huh?
You educate yourself first, that's how. Pick an area or two that really interests you and then read up on it online or at the library or buy a book or two on it at a bookstore. Watch Ebay auctions. Do Google image searches to see as many examples as you can. Research BEFORE YOU BUY.
Buying crap randomly based on simply what you think is cool is the quickest way to amass a pile of crap. Yeah, you might get a few hits but you'll spend a LOT of valuable time and some money, too, with not a lot of profit.
The worst is when you have a little knowledge and think that you're ready to jump in. In many areas of antiques and collectibles there are small differences from one item to another that make a big difference in value. The only way you can learn this stuff is by actually studying. If you really love whatever it is, then the study itself is fun and rewarding aside from whatever money you might make from dealing in that area. If you're only studying so that you can make money, then it's pretty much like any other job.
PS-- don't expect other dealers to help you at all. No one is going to make it easier for someone else to bid against him the next time that item is put up.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
27/08/2013 6:31 am  

yeah of course spanky...
But I was only speaking for myself. And I am not a dealer. And back then I spent almost nothing on stuff back then.
I dont even know at what point I started to become obsessed enough to call myself a "collector".
For me, I used the stuff for years, and by the time I had learned something and found a better thing to replace it with, I was happy to see the old stuff go.
Now I do all of what you are talking about. I LOVE the "forensics" as much as anybody. Probably spend too much time looking at examples of stuff I like.
But at first, it was just a way to relax and it was easy to find things that were a huge improvement on what I had. Before that time, I had no time for furniture. I lived and breathed working in the studio. Everything else in life came WAY after that. Including furniture.
I have never been a linear type learner. Sure it has its impracticalities. But that is just the way it is with me.
But your advice is correct.


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onegroovydude
(@onegroovydudegmail-com)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 327
27/08/2013 6:40 am  

That's it spanky......
"If you really love whatever it is, then the study itself is fun and rewarding aside from whatever money you might make from dealing in that area."
That's exactly what it's like. But I will start looking at things different, and not so narrow minded....:) I do know very few names in the field most pertaining to here, and I will start studying more.
And you're right. You're not seeing more narrow. It's just as wide, just on another level. I'm on your side EH, just wanted to get you riled up a little.
I know we brought some excitement to the normal day routine around here for a minute, so that was fun.. With around 1,500 hits at the time, I'm sure a lot of popcorn was consumed over those three days.
Thanks guys. You help out a lot more than you know.


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Eameshead
(@eameshead)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1366
27/08/2013 6:52 am  

and
In my efforts above to discuss the role of the intuitive aspect, I probably did my self a disservice. I did learn pretty quickly, and for a good while I picked furniture and traded and sold to dealers.
I was drawn to the things I like because of the lines. The reductive forms. For me, it has never been any more difficult than being self indulgent.
The knock offs don't even DO reductive design well, if at all. So it wasn't THAT hard for me to learn quickly, how to "see" in my admittedly narrow range.


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