brand loyalty vs. the concept
For starters, I am very much NOT a fan of the present day smash-n-grab mindset, nor of instant gratification in general. It is my true feeling that bargain shopping is what destroyed what was once an unrivaled reputation for quality control here in the states -- from clothing to stereo equipment to handtools -- we were once a culture of high quality, long-lasting goods available to the working man. One noteworthy example might be in how the Japanese rabidly covet what were once very pedestrian everyday articles here in the West. The Japanese emulate the old designs, even going so far as to buy up the old tooling and dies etc, but it does not seem to sate their appetite for the original articles. There were designers behind these goods, too -- though far more anonymous than Arne Jacobsen. So is it about integrity to the designer that they buy the old stuff over the new? I'd venture a guess that it was more to do with brand loyalty and snobbery to a large extent. There is a not-too-fine dividing line separating the principles of quality vs. quantity and "you get what you pay for," and being ceremoniously fleeced for the sake of brand name prestige. In other words, I do not think that buying a high quality reproduction from a vendor who exhibits a sincere sense of pride-in-craftmanship makes one a bottom trawler or cheapskate or second rate, and I really bristle at the toffy-nosed elitists who promote such binary notions.
And who's keeping score, really? Does it make your friends ignorant, because they don't know enough to flip your chair upside down and deliver a tut-tut because yours is missing its official seal? I think its more beautiful, frankly, when someone less studied recognizes the beauty in these designs. I don't buy things to pander to my design snob friends...how dull! To see someone who is clearly asleep at the wheel take pause and trace a finger along the edge of a dimple door on an ESU...it's sublime, really.
If you can afford to toss money at banditos like DWR for a shockingly overpriced leather chair like the Egg, that is your privilege. However, what could be wrong with loving a design, but having the wherewithall to realize that NO chair is worth ten thousand US dollars? How can you come at that with the argument of integrity? I find that price relative and even arbitrary. I see nothing wrong with wanting something that truly embodies the spirit of the original concept -- and yes, there are some quite handsome, convincing reproduction copies out there (not of the Asian variety) and no, I do not own one, and am not endorsing any of them -- simply the idea that good design should not be reserved for the very wealthy. At some point, it seems to me that it does boil down to brand loyalty and even materialism and snobbery, which are not things worthy of beholding; good design, yes.
Good point(s) finch..
But, "No chair is worth $10000" ?, thats just your view. Even from the point of view regarding investments there are plenty of chairs worth at least that amount at the least,infact if i could buy at least ten chairs that i can think of now for that amount i would.
This is such a waste of time ...
This is such a waste of time for the person posting this thread, there are close to 20 replies and all everyone could talk about is their redundant 2-cent feedback about how replicas are not ethically correct. The author's intention of the thread is to get good recommendations of replication manufacturers, not your snobby thoughts on whether replicas are moral or not, there had been plenty of discussion on ethical concerns of replicas so if you feel like adding to that particular "ethic" conversation, then feel free to do a search on this forum, otherwise let's give this guy some good recommendations so he doesn't have to read thru 15 replies full of irrelevant preaching before getting to one recommendation.
Unfortunately I can't give an recommendations because I haven't ordered from any yet but I do notice a lot of them advertise on this forum.
2 cents
I think the replies to the intial question of where to buy replicas shows the intention of many who post here to change that person's mind toward a more educated end. If one were simply to point him to a Chinese website, that wouldn't be doing anyone a favor. In my opinion, one can still appreciate without buying, so I don't see a problem with leading him away from buying anything. He can buy something worthwhile later and not pollute the process in the short term.
furniture fancywww.furniturefancy.com seems to have some really nice reproductions. i have bought several reproductions for our warehouse offices and they came in good condition, and for the money are real nice.
I have not checked out the egg chair the only one i have ever seen is the the one that Fritz Hansen sells I own 4 originals from 1958 in my collection . 2 eggs 2 swans and a a teak wood table by jacobsen and 2 cones from Verner Panton. not made by Hansen
I can spot a fake a mile away when it comes to the egg and swan chair. the biggest giveaway is the base... only Fritz Hansen make that special star base . any one can prefab the egg or swan with fiberglass and it looks like the original once you put nice Kavadat fabric on it , but only Hansen can make that base. so if you want it you have to pony up for the price or buy one on ebay and have it redone that is what i did. or if you don't care how the original looks buy a repo. if you just want the look of mid-century modern furniture .
check out furniture fancy they sell great Barcelona chairs , really good quality . bruno chairs really good quality.
marshmellow bench nice leather ... nelson (bench) excellent quality Panton plastic chairs (great) for the price and outdoor use , Bertoia Wire chairs (great) for t he price and outdoor use and a Carbo chair (great) for office with nice leather choice and exact to Cassina who has the license with The Carbosia estate.
I know my stuff I have over 60 different chairs all original I use the reproductions in the high traffic areas like our warehouse and the real good originals I keep in my home but folks don't turn up your nose when it comes to first class reproductions cause i own several and they look great for every d ay use. and blended with the originals look super duper.
Egg chair dilemma
I retract my comment about the Fritz Hansen Egg chairs. I visited the current FH production at DWR today and there is no longer any aesthetic diff between it and the good Chinese knockoffs. Have a look at the stem on the base - completely changed, ruined. It could be the same chair as the knockoff were it not slightly heavier. Very disapointing. Hopefully a correctable temporary lapse of judgment. I wouldn't buy either chair, but certainly would not pay 10x for the legitimate ugly cousin. And those Kjaerholm chairs from Thailand are also starting to look very good thanks to such Danish Manufacturing integrity. Et tu, Brute?
proper link for that Egg
You'll need to click the detail view from this link rather than the one I previously supplied.
I do find it ironic that DWR has switched it's identity to the "source for licensed originals" when those more expensive originals are made more poorly than the "just as good as the original" knockoffs they built their business on previously. I think all the knockoff manufacturering facilities are now working for the license holding companies, while the tru craftspeople are... hopefully managers, but I wonder what is really happening to them.
http://www.dwr.com/productdetail.cfm?id=10728
I don't know -- as far as...
I don't know -- as far as the bases of these egg chairs go, I think a lot of repros have almost identical looking bases; even the FH originals varied a bit in how the tines extended out from the stem from year to year. The question is whether the injection molded aluminum is as solid and will hold up over time. Some inferior alloys can be brittle and snap rather than flex or bend if stressed. Something to consider. There's a company in Uraguay that does some nice work, at least from the photos I've seen. Anyone know anything about them? Their eggs don't come with tilt, though. I have heard that tilt was a bad idea on these big chairs to begin with, as it doesn't hold up over time. I know some of the old Goodform chairs suffer the same fate, and these chairs are total workhorses.
By the way, I didn't mean to proselytize or hound anyone, but to be fair, I don't think you would post to a forum like this with a question and not expect some hemming and hawing; otherwise, just do a google/froogle search, right?
As for price, this is a subjective issue contigent upon attitude and resources, but let's look at it from a more objective/scientific standpoint: let's say that we find a non-liscenced reproduction of a classic chair, (and again, I'm not talking cheap knock offs, but ones created by genuine craftsmen embracing the nuance of the original without the overhead of a larger corporation) and it is, say, 85% as good as the original, and it sells for 2G...how does one then maintain the argument that that last 15% is worth an extra 7 or 8 thousand? How do we break down that extra expense? Romance? Prestige? In other words, how can the manufacturer justify such a tremendous markup from the cost of labor/materials? It's a fair question.
In my mind, I think a good reproduction is just as satisfying, especially in the manner of the one poster who mentioned mixing and matching, which is what I though everyone did anyway.
Hello Finch.
I sort of knew what you meant originally (or was it reproductionally?),but regardless of how you think people should be furnishing their homes there are a lot who will not settle for second best.Personally,i would rather have a couple of original and genuine pieces than a room full of copies or a mixture thereof.I realise that this is not practical for others,but i also know that original design doesnt always costs an absolute fortune.Swings and roundabouts honey.
Hi Vivienne,I'm not...
Hi Vivienne,
I'm not propounding second bests or settling for inferiority, or pieces of furniture made in a country where the workers don't love what they're creating. I am also not saying buy cheap for instant gratification and subsequently trivialize a masterpiece by aiding the proliferation of cruddy renditions...rather, I contend that the quantifiable differences between reproductions and contemporary pieces that are liscenced and official are often times very small, especially considering the MASSIVE price differences. It's really just a matter of plain old economics. And I dare say that even two thousand dollars for something you park your can in is hardly something to sneeze at.
As for originals with all their patina and charm...THAT I can see celebrating, and I have saved and starved for my share of guitars and other antedeluvian trappings to be sure. But life is short, or at least that's what they tell me, so if a guy wants a reproduction because he doesn't have the means for the originals or liscenced officials, why not get the best one he can afford and get started on that patina right away? I see no shame, and I find it crass to infer that such a person is greedy and lazy.
Hello Finch...
Yes life is very short you are right there. If its ok though i prefer to fill mine with originals,then if i ever get fed up with one i can sell it on or swap it for another, just my way. Glad you love your guitars, i know that feeling of having something after saving,im lucky enough not to have to do that anymore and i do realise that i am lucky.I know i spend most of my time in a semi alcoholic state (my life my choice) but i cant remember calling anyone Crass or Greedy?,i never look back to what i said earlier in posts though,but if i did i apologise.If someone wants a copy or replica or whatever then its their choice i suppose.
I think the world of Vivienne...
I think the world of Vivienne, and Finch too is a wonderful bird, it's hard to disagree with anyone who could write "to see someone who is clearly asleep at the wheel take pause and trace a finger across the edge of a dimple door of an esu...". That's pure poetry. Thus, life's short, cerainly, and maybe it's too long too, hopefully with room enough for the most of us.
10k Chair
Ten k is way too much for a chair no matter how much coin one may have. At the end of the day it is still a chair. Buy yourself a 5k chair to park your can in and donate the other 5k to somebody who doesn't even have a house or roof over their heads and contemplate that whilst sitting in that 5k chair. It seems that materialism and society in general might be getting a bit sideways when we start debating the relative merits of 10k chairs, again with the caveat, "no matter how much coin one has". Something like four plus billion people will go to sleep tonight hungry, 10k chair tsk, tsk! IMHO
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