Recently I had a very bad experience with Paypal via ebay. I sold an item to someone who replaced a part on the item then sent it back saying he was refusing the item. This is using US postal system. Without contacting me paypal gives him his money back even though the postal log shows he had access to it for 6 hours. When I received it back the packing was horrendous like nothing I would do. The traded out part was broken. I have since learned that if a buyer refuses delivery of an item for any reason(buyers remorse, etc) Paypal will give them their money back without even contacting the seller. To top it off the buyer who never bought the item gets to leave nasty negative feedback after i challenged him on it.So I am out the item, postal costs and hours of aggravation dealing with Paypal and ebay. Anyone have similar experiences.
I had a very bad experience...
I had a very bad experience with Paypal a few years ago. A woman bought a very expensive Chanel bag from me and then spontaneously decided she didn't like it upon receiving it. She filed for a chargeback with her credit card company, and of course Paypal was forced to return the money.
They then deducted it out of my account almost immediately despite the fact that I had something like 14 days to tell "my side" of the story. Oh, and the woman kept the bag. She did not send it back to me.
I was told, and I believe its true, that Paypal basically has no choice but to give money back to buyers when buys file a chargeback. Credit card companies just basically take the money from Paypal. Of course Paypal isn't going to just eat the loss -- they're going to take it from you.
I have never head of Paypal siding with a seller.
two can play this game
The way around PayPal attaching you account is to transfer the funds immediately to your bank account. They can not get the funds from that source. They will debit your account, but it will only show a negative number, not the actual money. After that they are free to "pound sand".
Well, they will send...
Well, they will send creditors after you in an attempt to collect the money, and those credits can report your "debt" to Paypal to a credit agency.
http://paypalsucks.com/ has all kinds of horror stories.
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Paypal can play the good cop bad cop routine well...If you call their bluff they fold. And what I mean by that is in this country they are answerable to a variety of Government organizations, you just need to pick one to threaten them with.
What I have learnt more importantly is not to speak to the Asian based telephonists.
And of course they're taught to wear you down with automated answers and 'telephone runarounds'
agrees with Ball
regardless of what you think of over regulation (here in Australia) I have bought and sold 100s of things on ebay using paypal and have never had a problem ironing out or resolving any disputes (as a seller and buyer) because of strong consumer focussed rights Australia engenders in it's various legislation.
I don't think the USA has the same regulations
The fact that paypal could refund the money without hearing both sides of the stroy tells me that there are no such safeguards here. I did call the Federal Trade Commission and got "there is little we can do but inform them of the complaint" line.
still playing
Chicagoan,
Let them send anyone they desire and my attorneys will be more than happy to meet them in court. That is usually the end of the battle. Most credit collection companies do not attend these court cases and when they do, they are generally poorly prepared. I do not give up near as easily as the average debtor. As I said before, two can play this game. I play to win and I win more than most. I concern myself with what is happening, not what may happen.
My experiences
have almost always been good with PayPal, although there clearly are exceptions.
One thing that does confuse me is if the buyer takes the package, opens it up and either returns it or replaced a part, how could that be consider a delivery refusal?
I once won a handled Londi-Bitossi tall jug on eBay and when it arrived, the handle was broken. The seller did put bubble wrap around the handle, but he did not fill in the space, so the handle broke.
When I received it, I contacted the seller, who was actually kind of bitchy and wouldn't accept it back; the seller told me file a claim with the US postal service.
I brought the item and the packaging to the post office and they're policy is to take the item, investigate it and issue a check to the person filing the claim. I was told that I would not get the item back.
I thought about it and since I paid (I think) less than $30.00 for this jug (which I've never seen another for sale), I decided to just keep it.
I glued the handle back and it's been on my mantel for over 3 years.
I didn't file a claim with PayPal (I should've, I guess).
But all's well that ends well...in my case.
There's refusal to accept...
...an unopened package and then there's refusal to accept an item that was purchased.
In the former, you can refuse any piece of mail sent to you and the USPS will return it to sender, but ONLY if it has not been opened. The mail carrier or postal clerk will determine the state of the packaging. I suppose it is possible to seal a package back up in such a way as to fool someone into think it hadn't been opened, but I hope most USPS employees know what to look for.
As for the latter, any buyer on Ebay can open a package and decide he doesn't want to keep the item. He can make up any reason he wants. Ebay definitely gives the power to the buyer on this one, thanks to countless dishonest sellers pulling shady stuff over many years. I've been on ebay since 1998 and sellers had the upper hand for a long time and a lot of them took advantage.
Short of photographing the item as you are packing it, and photographing the wrapping and packing materials---which adds time and energy to the whole deal and most of the time won't be needed---I don't know what you can do. It's probably just the cost of doing business online. If your loss is substantial enough to warrant going to court, then great---but if not, you may just have to eat it.
Doing business on the internet is a risk but--
Most postal workers are not going to challenge a returned item . It puts them in the middle of a situation they don't want to be involved in.
I opened the returned resealed package in front of a Postal supervisor and told him the package was tampered with and was probably going to find something wrong inside. Sure enough when the item was revealed and a part was replaced he just shook his head and said there is nothing I can do.
I have since excepted my loss but continue to be in dismay at the lack of due process from the Postal Service, Paypal and Ebay.
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