SDR the whole eco green ...
SDR the whole eco green has me totally confused..
I believe that we all have a responsibility to be prudent with the things that we could do to save the planet and the the O zone, but i am sorry we can only do so much and some have no desire to do nothing, as that is there belief,]
as far as the nelson clocks that was more tongue and cheek speaking..... as i have no doubt that any thing that was produced prior to the enlightenment of damage to the ozone was environmentally safe, cause so many harm ful materials were used in the Eames Era, and that is the main reason that Herman miller was the first to sign on as a green company. as they knew it was a good sound move for their company
Antique rules are probably different
In this slightly insane politically correct era, where everyone minds everybody else's business, some people might be shocked that antique furnishing collectors might own something that is not very 'green'.
Crips....the 'colbalt blue' Fiesta Ware of the 1930's ACTUALLY HAS COLBALT IN ITS' GLASE!!
None of the vintage Eames fiberglass chairs are environmently safe for disposal, but they're fine if they're not crumbling.
The house I used to live in had asbestos siding, and when I bought that house, the inspector said that the siding was fine as long as it was not crumbling.
So....I'm sure that some of the items we all own and love might be not be "green" by today's standards. I'm having a hard time using the compact florescent bulbs in my vintage lamps because I don't think they light as well as when I use incandescent bulbs. Call me old-fashioned.
Some of the older materials aren't used anymore because they are nasty. Old crumbling latex foam is replaced with a much more subtle foam that last MUCH longer.
What about all those collectors of Victorian that's stuffed with horsehair?
LuciferSum...
Sure, I would like to have an original Nelson clock...who wouldn't? But I'm not rolling in the dough here. I have funds set aside where I save up for certain items that I want. I'm currently saving up for a Nelson spindle clock. I absolutely love them. I asked for one of the All Around The World knock-offs for Christmas from my dad. They don't carry the spindle clock last I checked so he'll probably get me the eye clock which is my second favorite Nelson clock. I won't actually get the clock until late January as I won't be traveling home until then. My sister is due then, and I couldn't afford to go home for both Christmas and the baby's birth. We're having our family Christmas then. Anyhoo, I'll take a nice knock-off any day then having a bare patch of wall with nothing to hang on it. And I personally consider re-issues to be knock-offs. IMHO, the Vitra clocks ARE knock-offs as they are not originals. I think the only originals are the ones from the actual time-period they were produced in. There are only a certain number of originals left, and they can be quite expensive.
Do I see a problem owning a knock-off. No...not as long as you are happy with it. That's what counts. My parents bought me a knock-off Wegner daybed for my graduation present. It was a surprise. I wasn't expecting it, and hadn't asked for it. I was doing fine with my non-Modern college sofa. My parents knew that I was re-decorating my living room in mid-century modern around a few pieces I got after my grandmother's death. They thought that I would like the sofa since it was mid-century modern and my sofa definitely was not. Do I like the sofa though even though it's not an original. Yes, it's still a nice sofa/daybed even if it isn't a Wegner original, and my parents certainly can't afford an original. And I would never ask them to buy me one. An item does not have to be an original for the user to derive enjoyment from it.
cloudburst2000
you are ...
cloudburst2000
you are fine young man with a good head on your shoulders and care about your family and are appreciative of the gifts that they give you,
after the dust settles and they hang on the wall or sit on the floor it really does not make to much of a difference, what they are, but the memory of your parents buying it for you will last forever,
my parents are both passed away
but i cherish all the wonderful things that they gave me,
I would not be wasting my time touting "fake clocks " if i did not think they were worth mentioning on this forum , as this is a tough group that wants the best and knows the best, not one person here has a true love affair with fake stuff, but i can say this group is as knowledgeable as any group out there realizes that these clocks are priced right, look right and are a great deal,
I would not be recommending them if they were a poorly constructed piece of crap.
I have stated from day one that i have a problem,
with the Vitra clocks as they are in the same classification as these clocks and i own three of the Vitra clocks and have them hanging right next to the all world clocks, so for me and not Mrs
Nelson, I seen no difference; as i have had Lasick eye surgery and see real well.
The only way we will be able to tell where these clocks are if we all live long enough to collect the appreciation value at the end, when we sell and it gets rejected as cheap cheap knockoff.
LRF...
Actually, I'm a fine young woman 😉 And I also think that it doesn't matter if it's a knock-off if you enjoy it. The daybed I have is very nice even though it's a Wegner knock-off. And it was really nice of my parents to get it for me since they're by no means rich. And I still think a Vitra is as much a knock-off as anything else. If it's not an original then it's a knock-off, IMHO.
And like you, I just had Lasik eye surgery done about 1 month ago. I decided that came before buying my spindle clock. I've always had horrid eye-sight and now I'm 20/15 in both eyes. I still sometimes forget that I don't have to reach for my glasses when I wake up each morning 😀
Cloud...one thing...Vitra is not a knockoff
I continue to rave a bit about using the term "knockoff' so loosely.
A knockoff is an item made without offical sanction of the copyright holder or their heirs.
Whether you like it or not, Vitra was offically sanctioned by George Nelson heirs to reproduce some of his most important clocks. They spent a lot of time studying the original Howard Miller clocks and other than changing the works from electric or wind-up to battery, they should be about the same.
All of my stuff is 100% legit...except for an all black Wassily chair that I'm certain is a high quality knockoff. I bought it locally for $200.00, and I couldn't resist! The metal is black and has a crinkle finish...definately not a real one. I DID buy an Eileen Gray round metal and glass table to go with it...and it's a knockoff from China.
Other than those two, and the 3 clocks on their way from All World, all of my stuff is real. But those clocks are going to be like wall art, and since the Vitra are so bloody expensive, i'm breaking my standards and going for the Eye, Steering Wheel and Kite. What the hay.
But those Vitra's are 'reissues', not 'knockoffs'
sorry MS Cloudburst2000 did...
sorry MS Cloudburst2000 did not tend to bend your gender, Lascik is great as you can see great perhaps a nice Nelson eye clock to commemorate the occasion.
Barry always makes good points, between knock off and reissues, I am like him and have 95 percent original and 5 percent reissue or knock off, I have been collecting for so long my stuff is so old it can not help from being originals,
The clocks have been my most fun as i have collected almost 100 not all Nelson or howard miller some are the original pot metal from the 40s like the Joe Louis clock, FDR,Will Rodgers, Major Boles armature hour, and almost every cowboy clock ever made, and lots of silly kitch clocks so when we talk clocks that is my fun and passion and i know a few things about them
I also know how to fix them!!! yea
silly question for all
Do you think more men than woman collect midcentury modern things?
I know for some reason lots of men love this era and like to collect all things MCM , other than ms cloudburst2000 we have not heard from many of the gals that like the stuff, so are you out there ladies.
I believe...
that more men than women collect mid-century modern. I know people of both genders who collect the stuff, but the majority do seem to be men. My brother-in-law, the architect, loves my decor. He's really more into art deco, but he loves the eames era as well. My sister does not really love either. She's more into the 'classical' look. The only room that is art deco at their house is the study because that is his room, and he was allowed to decorate it. My sister decorated everything else. I personally feel that their decorating scheme, outside of the study, is boring. For some reason, I think the modern lines appeal more to men. I don't know why though. Except for some of the kitchsy-looking stuff, I think alot of the mid-century modern stuff is classy-looking. I think teak wood is lovely, not too light, not too dark. And many of the designs were innovative but very nice-looking.
Oh, and anyone's help on the painting thread I made about the artist and how I should re-frame the piece would be greatly appreciated 🙂
Cloudburst
One of my biggest peeves about knock-offs comes more from this issue of desire; the pervasive idea that simply because one WANTS something, one should be able to HAVE it. Except most people only want the LOOK of something - not the quality and craftsmanship (and therefore, pricetag). What most people want is the status a designer item brings. (would anyone knock off the canvas tote bags you get at the bookstore?)
Quality is important, and it takes time, money, and effort. My father and brothers are very fine carpenters. One is a stained glass artist as well. Two uncles are a painter and a designer. My grandfathers were a construction foreman and an opera singer. My own training is in sculpture and bookbinding. Creativity, knowledge of materials, and specific craft seem to run in my family: I see a very direct link between that knowledge and a high quality piece.
So there is this desire for the status and look of these iconic pieces, for which people are willing to spend money buying knockoffs. That money goes to something that can only ever be a ghost of the original. Example: A shop near wor sells a "retro ball clock" which has the standard Nelson colors: blue, orange, & green. Someone has also seen fit to add lavender and pink. The result is an atrocious approximation of a real Nelson clock. In the same way you can approximate a Jaguar by building a kit car - it doesnt mean that you HAVE a Jaguar - you have some object that only LOOKS like a Jag. Styling aside, the kit car lacks the engine, the horsepower, the inherent value (for resale, inheiritance, etc)of the real thing; all of those things that MAKE it a Jag.
Some approximations get closer than others. A friend (I previously mentioned her buying a horrible knock-off starburst clock) bought the Ball Clock from AllWorld. When she got it the dimensions were very close to the real thing. But 11 of the balls were matte finish - one was high gloss. Also, the hour hand was brown - not orange. Despite being very close, it was still an approximation. Every time someone asks about the clock she'll have a choice: be dishonest and call it a Nelson clock, or acknowledge that its a fake.
I can see the argument about decorative items not being inherently harmful. The basic function is to provide aesthetic appeal (and in this case: tell time) I offer two counters: One, the approximation can never be the real thing. No one will think the Mona Lisa in your bathroom is anything but a poster - however, a knock-off Nelson clock is meant to be dishonest. It's sole purpose is to lie about its origins. At best it's a halfway decent copy, at worst it tarnishes the brand identity of the original. Second, the money spent on a knock-off could very easily be spent towards an actual good design by a lesser known designer. There are plenty of great mid-century clocks that tell time equally as well, and can provide a similar aesthetic appeal. Just ask Aunt Flo.
Technically.....is a Nelson Clock a Nelson clock?
A fair and honest argument could be made that (apparently) 75% or more of the "Nelson Clocks" weren't even designed by Nelson. Harper, Pyle and others.
If the Vitra clocks were exactly the same as the Howard Miller clocks...right down to the second hand being avaiable on those clock that originally had one, and one could order either an electric, wind-up, or battery motor, AND finally sell them as a reasonable, then I would not bother with knockoffs and buy the original.
I prefer electric or wind-up clocks to battery powered....call me odd.
The fact too that many of the Vitra clocks do not have the second hand is a big turn off.
So, in my book, these clocks and the Bauhaus pieces of furniture (Mies, Eillen Gray, La Courbusier) are OK to buy as knockoffs.
All post WWII things should be originals...in my own twisted world.
however, a knock-off Nelson c...
however, a knock-off Nelson clock is meant to be dishonest. It's sole purpose is to lie about its origins. At best it's a halfway decent copy, at worst it tarnishes the brand identity of the original.
sorry but this is so radical thinking it makes my hair go white, you make good points and have always stated things the way you feel but this is off the wall who gives a shit!!!!! should we round up all the nelson clocks and have a big bonfire in Times square, ? Hell no!!! every one who bought one cause they looked good, were good quality, nice decorative clocks, We know they are not the original from Wright 20 Auction house for 700. or hight bid on Ebay with outdated electric plugs,and motors that do not work.
These are not fake Rolexs sold on 57 and 5th Ave in NYC by some Nigerians for 20 bucks!!
I know this is your issue and it is mine also, I hate cheap fake furniture, I have been blessed with a large enough bank account that i can buy the best and I do have the best from My Home to my Cars, to my furniture, No bragging here just thanking the good lord that i have been successful, but that does not mean that i want to throw money around just cause i have it,
I hate to preach but if you could have three nice clocks for 150.00 to make a nice wall assortment why not? one from Vitra is 300.00 . and i tell you pal they are the same , as i have two eyes clocks, one from Vitra one from All world, side by side you can not tell the difference!!!!!!!!, you mentioned the sweep hand, The first series did not come with the sweep hand all the new ones they sell do.
This bull crap about lieing to Joe Blow what the clock is who really cares, call it what you want call it a gift from G-D but if they are going to ostrosize you from current society cause you transgressed and bought a reproduction or less than perfect original on the wall who cares.
you always throw in you could buy a good design by a lesser known designer. why?????? maybe we dont want to buy something buy a lesser known designer maybe just like the way the Nelson clocks look and want to own one being a original or repoduction,
I have tons of clocks from the midcentury a lot of starburst clocks,
I just look at them like them and think no big deal a nice West clock, Nice Elgin, Nice Wembly,
am i wrong here folks ? if i am feel free to let me know!!!!!
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