More about Nelson Clocks  

Here's a detail of my brochure copy
Either Howard Miller was wrong, Irving Harper was mistaken, or Umanoff worked for Nelson.

I'm afraid Irving was mistaken on this count ...
Irving had left Nelson's office by 1964. The Zootimers were designed in 1965 principally by William Cannan of the Nelson Office. (See George Nelson: Architect, Writer, Designer Teacher [List of Works] at 299.) Umanoff -- not an employee of the Nelson Office -- had nothing to do with them.

Thanks for the clarification, MidMod,
but it's so murky as to when the Nelson arrangement ended with Howard Miller.
1) when did it end?
2) why did it end?
3) were the Nelson clocks immediately discontinued at that time?
4) was Howard Miller allowed to continue to use the Nelson clock hands on subsequent clocks that Nelson had nothing to do with?
5) when did Umanoff start? was there any overlap?
Because Howard Miller is a such a pain in the neck about this era, it's hard to sort all of this out.
MidMod, you keep refering to a publication. Can you be specific about this?

George Nelson and Howard Miller...
My attempt to answer Barry's questions:
1) when did it end?
The Nelson Office designed the vast majority of their clocks for Howard Miller prior to 1965. The date coincides closely with Irving's departure from the Nelson Office, but make of that what you will. I don't have any inside knowledge. After the 1965 Zootimers (there appear to be no other Nelson clocks from that year), there were a few one-off series for Howard Miller like the Institutional (Office) Series (1968) [presumably related to Nelson's development of the Action Office Series for Herman Miller], three crappy plastic clocks in 1977, and the Memphis inspired "Tempo '21 Series (1984).
2) why did it end?
I have no idea, and haven't been able to get a straight answer on this one. My guess is that the Nelson Office lost the commission with Howard Miller and that Howard Miller went in another direction with Umanoff and others. Why? My educated guess is reduced sales. Most of the best-selling icons -- the ball (1949), steering wheel (1949), and spike (1952) -- had been available for between 12 and 15 years by 1965. Presumably, sales of those designs were down. The more recent clocks (like the motion notion series) were intricate and extravagant and thus more expensive to manufacture. Judging by the limited numbers available now and the high sales prices at the time (two or three times the ball clock prices), I presume they weren't big sellers. Look at Umanoff's designs. They were made of cheaper materials, were easy to manufacture, and sold for far less than Nelson's intricate clocks. Thus, presumably, they were so profitable. [Btw, this also explains why Howard Miller currently manufactures curio cabinets and marked up grandfather clocks. More people want that junk than good, clean design.]
3) were the Nelson clocks immediately discontinued at that time?
No. The Nelson clocks continued to be sold for quite some time after Nelson stopped designing for Howard Miller (with the above-noted exceptions).
4) was Howard Miller allowed to continue to use the Nelson clock hands on subsequent clocks that Nelson had nothing to do with?
Presumably, but I haven't seen the contracts. Clearly, they did use them.
5) when did Umanoff start? was there any overlap?
I have no idea, but I haven't seen any pre-1965 Umanoffs out there.
With regard to the publication, I've been referring to the new Vitra book on Nelson. It's an excellent sourcebook for all things Nelson, though understandably it does not go into depth about the ups and downs of the relationship between Nelson and Howard Miller.
Obviously, I welcome any insight others might have, but that is what I know/think on the subject.

Thanxalot, MidMod!
I'm planning to buy the Vitra book, which probably won't be available for sale here at the Walker Art Center (in Minneapolis, where the Saarinen exhibition is currently) until the first of the year, but I plan to buy one. No one else seems to have it for sale in the US that I can find.
Thanks again for the useful information. Isn't it strange that Howard Miller had (apparently) no interest in the reissues that went to Vitra? I'm certain they would've done 'em if they had wanted to.
O...one more thing, MidMod, if you want to email me privately (barrymn1@msn.com), I'll be glad to send you my Excel spreadsheet on all of the Nelson clocks I've been able to locate by number and description (over 300 by now, including variants....)

mid mod thanks for the ...
mid mod thanks for the info..
I am trying to get t he Nelson vitra book but they say it will not be available to the end of December here in the US .

Gramps goes mod?
.
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/clt/924188625.html

you know their is still more...
you know their is still more about Nelson clocks to learn...now get this thread back into action!
I got a Chronopak desk clock for $110 on ebay recently...now that's a steal!

i would love to continue ...
i would love to continue the nelson clock thread but sad to say I think between Barry and Myself we have found almost all the clocks that were on ebay.
I have not bought one in 6 months as i have not found a thing new in Nelson clocks,

Yes, LRF
not much these days...except some more Ball and Spike clocks, and I have 'em both.
I did get a Ubanoff Wedge table clock recently. It's the only table model I own, but it's not too big of a deal.

What about the numbers clock?
It's a steep price, but maybe the seller would consider a discount given the length of the listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&i...

I'm currently using MCM as...
I'm currently using MCM as Mid Century Madness (ala gold fever). Decent clock, just no where near $750 IMO.

That is one ugly clock IMHO....
That is one ugly clock IMHO. SO is the Memphis inspired Nelson. What the hell happened?
George Nelson was a leader, so why did he follow the footsteps of Sottsass? The year this was designed (84) was only two years before he passed away. Why would he need to falter then?

MidMod that Numbers clock
is one of the late 50's vintage (2281) clocks, but it sure looks like those cheaper Umanoff "Swing Timers" clocks of the early 1960's. I don't think it's worth $750.00, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't sell.
I love Nelson's clocks, but this one doesn't really turn me on too much, although it is cool that the numbers are printed onto the plexiglass.
here's what is says in the 1965 catalog;
2281 "Numbers" clock. Diameter 13", Depth 4". Oliver Green, purple, orange, numerals on plexiglass, white dial, oil finished walnut rim. Available Electric Cord and Plug or Electric Chronopack. Retail price $40.00
Guess it was considered a medium priced clock, but without the classic Nelson hands, it's kind of dull. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had it on my wall, but....not at $750.00!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&i...

Numbers...
You won't see me arguing the numbers clock (No. 2281) is a great design, but it is from 1959-1960 and is attributed to Don Ervin in Nelson's Office. At a minimum, it presages the later Umanoff designs and has some visual interest with the numbers painted on the plexiglass over the hands and a walnut rim.
One clock that truly is a GREAT design also recently became available on ebay. Designed in 1961 in connection with the "Clocks Ahead of Time" Series, and attributed to Irving Harper in Nelson's office, what some call the spike diamond (model no. 2293) is one of the best designs out there in my opinion.
http://cgi.ebay.com/rare-george-nelson-wall-clock-howard-miller-eames-ju...