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NULL NULL
(@pcarrtvsa-com)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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31/07/2008 9:45 pm  

I have an opportunity to go back to my design school to give a talk to design students and faculty. Knowing what you know now,...What advice would you give design students as it relates to the real world and their academic preparation. What advice would you give the professors??
Thank you!


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sharplinesoldtimes
(@sharplinesoldtimes)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 522
01/08/2008 12:07 am  

Wow, that's really a...
Wow, that's really a fantastic question. I really hope some of the former students in here will take their time to come up with a suggestion.
Well, please don't go for all the usual b!llshit about believing in yourself, keeping true to your nature as a designer, the important need for loving the buisness as it does not love you blah blah blah - I'm sure that they already know this.
One of the things that personally separates me from my creative friends is that I really use a lot of time and effort in keeping up with all the news within the world of design and to a less degree architecture. It gives me an leep of advance because if I know what's out there, I also know how to set myself apart from it. It inspires me, broadens my horizon, challenges my perception of design and thus helps me create something not nessacerily revolutionary but certainly something fresh and often inventive.
My experience with the design school I went to, was that only a passioned handfull of my fellow students were curious enough to use their sparetime to gather useful information about past, present and future design. Most often only did it when they had to do reseach for an assignment.
Another thing. My class started at 23 students and after 5 months there were 14 left. Two had to drop out as they got a critical depression and was given immediate psychiatric help. The reason behind the loss of 9 students so quickly was mainly inexperince and too young an age to cope with the reality and enviroment at a design school. But what hit all 23 students was especially stress from trying to read everything the teachers suggested and attend every single course or lecture. I don't encourage people to be lazy of bunk off, but I think it's important to keep your critial sense and expect that not all information or personal tools we're presented with are useful to us all. It's different from person to person and exactly which type of creativity you have and how it works.


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NULL NULL
(@pcarrtvsa-com)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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01/08/2008 12:42 am  

Thank you!
This is very helpful. Thank you for taking the time!
http://designurfuture.blogspot.com/


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Big Television Man
(@big-television-man)
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01/08/2008 12:44 am  

The greatest designs are not going to promote themselves
You may be the greatest designer, artist, sculptor, cabinet maker, etc., that ever lived, but if you can't handle: marketing, advertising, networking, publicity, etc. or can't employ someone to do same then at best you may only be able to consider yourself a highly trained enthusiast and not a working designer.
The old saying; "Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door" to which I would add, you'd better advertise it or you've got yourself a nice paperweight. May sound cynical, but experience tells me it's realistic.


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Robert Leach
(@robertleach1960yahoo-co-uk)
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01/08/2008 1:23 am  

I had
I had the good fortune to actually go back (20 years later) and teach on the course I took, alongside two members of staff who taught me.. I admired them both greatly, I did it for 5 years and it was a great experience.. I learned as much from them then as I did as a student.
I agree with BTM's previous post.. I see loads of hugely talented students leave, but it those with the talent for self promotion that prosper..sometimes regardless of their design skills


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whitespike
(@whitespike)
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01/08/2008 1:49 am  

It's true
I know several designers who are trend followers, bad imitators who are doing well. I know several original, talented designers who are not doing well. Selling yourself is huge. It sounds like a soulless thing to do to many designers, but if you can play the game correctly you can be yourself and be valuable to your clients as well.
Several designers I know spend too much time thinking about themselves and not enough time thinking of the client. If you are not solving a problem for a client, and are only trying to make a visual impact, you will not go very far IMHO.


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finch
(@finch)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 227
01/08/2008 1:57 am  

Big...
Big Television:
Unfortunately, you are right. I think this is the number one pitfall for most creative or otherwise exceptional types. Unless you happened to be born with an uncanny combination of both talent and PR skills, then self-promotion usually marks a last gasp before heading for a career in sod-busting.
I often wonder about all the good ideas/good art that gets lost in the vacuum.
And cynicism...is good. If you're not cynical, you're not paying attention.
On a more upbeat note, I think forums like this are a great source for discovering some unsung talents, both past and contemporary.
End rant.


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SDR
 SDR
(@sdr)
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01/08/2008 10:33 am  

BTM's comments
seem to have hit a nerve -- and I can agree with them completely. At 65, no longer employed in the usual sense, I seem to have come to the place where I may find out once and for all if I can promote myself into some gratifying level of production and "success" -- the making of things for people, things which (finally) I get to design myself, in collaboration with the end user, of course.
As for what to say to today's students: I guess it would be "you're only going to be in school for a limited time, and so whatever you can put into it is what you'll get out of it." I was aware by the time I graduated that those who came of their own volition, and (often) on their own dime, and after other experiences than just a public-school education, both put the most into college and got the most out of it (or so I suspected). For me, it was over almost before I knew it, and, my head still spinning, I promptly went off in my own direction, falling eventually into the life of the artisan.


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koen
 koen
(@koen)
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01/08/2008 8:29 pm  

Hi Paula
I can understand the excitement but it is a challenge indeed. First of all because you will face students that are quite different both in background and ambitions from your contemporaries. Over the years the public perception of design has changed from a word known by few to a buzzword used by all. This change has attracted different people to design schools. It is not as much that change as the diversity in the student population that constitutes the challenge. I do not want to look back too much but just to give a taste of it. One of my colleague students in the sixties asked our teacher if a designer was allowed to accept a commission from a material supplier for the materials he specified for a product. The student was asked to leave the classroom because the question was considered completely inappropriate for a future professional. Many students now would not even understand that such considerations ever existed.
The other challenge is probably that they are by their age and past experience much better equipped for that future of which we will not be (and sometimes don't want to be) part of.
But considering their interest in how we, the practicing generation, see things, I would give them the following things to consider.
We all know about the importance of the media and their sometimes overwhelming influence. A number of the students in design schools have actually been attracted to the profession by its media presence. Some also reject it outright and do not want to be part of it. If I had to start a career in design right now, I would sympathize with the second group but I would disagree with ignoring the media. For better or worse I think designers right now require two identities, one that follows the rules of the media, the other that follow the rules of professionalism. Being a good professional is of course the most important one, simply because no effort in marketing, in public visibility and media attention will provide you with the kind of long term clients that any designer or design office needs. For those who choose to be in-house designers and let?s face it most designers are, that professionalism is even more important because you are among professionals and judged by professionals. Public recognition will in these cases always go to the brand and very seldom to the individual designer.


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koen
 koen
(@koen)
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01/08/2008 8:30 pm  

cont.
To have a media identity is important to. In stating that, I would first warn young designers that some levels of recognition can not be reached in a 'natural' way. Although it does not always look that way, but a number of 'bigger than life' media designer identities are the result of large efforts, often government sponsored, to create a figure head for the design identity of a particular country. These efforts are so expensive that it is never within reach for any individual designer. The other rule I would insist on is that the media memory is very short. The lifetime of a magazine might be stretched in a dentist waiting room, but that is really the full extend of it.
It is one of the reasons why people that are well known for being well known have to be in the media repeatedly and will go to great length to get their.
I would also remind them about the simple reality that nobody was ever 'discovered'. I see quite often young colleagues expecting one day to be discovered by the media, on the basis of the merits of their production. The media have no judgement other than the caption that this is NEW. So to attract attention because of the quality of your work is not part of the media world. It might be part of the professional world, but that world communicates differently. It's toolmakers talking to producers, buyers to suppliers, retailers to agents, etc. etc. that will establish your professional identity. The media never make the difference between a product that sells well and one that does not, the media hardly knows if the product works well or not, but the professional world knows both right away.For what it is worth I think I would say that they have to understand their own ambitions. What they expect to be in the design world. There are thousands and thousands of designers going happily to their work every morning and do this for many years without ever getting or expecting any public recognition but even those for whom public recognition is important it is vital to be good at what you are doing.
In the virtual world it is quite easy to create a virtual identity. Thousands of product managers have small but discretional budgets to allow young designers to create the next beer can or head phone and we have the virtual tools to do that within these marginal budgets. It allows young stars to proudly proclaim that they have designed for: ??fill in the brand name you like most??. None of this will last if the possibilities it creates are not filled in by real and good products.
?.but I am sure Paula that you have more interesting things to say!


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NULL NULL
(@pcarrtvsa-com)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 3
01/08/2008 9:50 pm  

That's an interesting point to discuss!
Thanks for giving me a different point of view.
A real snapshot of reality as it relates to "Becoming Famous" or a "Rock Star Designer" is a valid point.
What about the professors? Any words of encouragement or advice for them?
I hope more people will respond with feedback.
Thanks again.
-Paula
http://designurfuture.blogspot.com/


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Big Television Man
(@big-television-man)
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Posts: 388
01/08/2008 10:41 pm  

I agree wholeheartedly with Koen, however
The point I was trying to make wasn't so much about promoting oneself to "Rock Star" status but rather getting noticed so that you might be able to pursue your chosen field, be it working as a designer for an established manufacturer or heading up your own design house.
Universities, Art Schools, degrees in some type of creative endeavor do a great job of teaching a student how to make a mortise, or mix a color, or build a maquette, or vacuum mold a prototype. They are great at imparting the skills to "make" the thing, but how well do they instruct the student to then actually translate that knowledge into a viable, paying career. This may have changed in the 25 plus years since I was in school, but back then, practical knowledge on how to make the thing pay was in short supply, and if you can't get paid, you can't design, or paint, or build.
An example of this has been discussed at length elsewhere including a number of publications; that MFA programs at least in the area of fine art painting are either purposefully or subconsciously lacking in practical marketing information as instructors are loathe to mint a fresh batch of competition for grants and attention from galleries each spring. I know this is cynical to the extreme, but a cursory glance of course catalogues for MFA programs seem to be woefully short of practical marketing courses. This was my experience 6 years ago when helping the son of a friend of mine apply to several MFA programs. I hope it has changed, but it (marketing, promotion) would still be what I would speak to students about, given the level of competition and that Starbucks practically requires a college degree to pour coffee.


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koen
 koen
(@koen)
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Posts: 2054
02/08/2008 12:13 am  

Dear Big television Man
I certainly agree with your plea for room in design programs for the practical aspects of turning your creative abilities into an economical service. I have to say that in my own experience with different design schools that concern is more often than not un-existing. Al the way from writing quotes, intellectual property protection, production cost calculation, how to approach a client with your services or with a potential product, how to ensure that you get paid, basic project management, you name it, seems to be below the attention horizon of most academics. I fear it has something to do with the status of that knowledge within the academic community.
I would not be such a problem if design offices shared more openly with their employees the basics of these practices but strangely enough there is not much interest for it on the part of the aspiring designer either. For years I managed a design office who?s mission it was (besides having satisfied clients) to give young designers their first experience after leaving university. Generally spoken they showed little interest in these aspects of the business. I am sure they would read the quotes and general conditions that were part of it, because it was part of the file, but questions about it were seldom. Right now I make time ones a week during the normal session to give evening conferences about different subjects that I find important like how to write and negotiate contracts, intellectual property protection, employee, employer relations in design offices, how to formulate press releases etc. All subjects that are not part of the normal curriculum but that I find important. There are no credits attached to these 3 hour conferences and attendance is generally low. The most obvious reason is of course that the teacher is not very good but those who attend keep saying the opposite?so, It makes me wonder.


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koen
 koen
(@koen)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2054
02/08/2008 12:27 am  

Hi Paula...
To professors I would only say two things:
1- Considering the implicit or explicit demands of the academic world, please make sure that not your career but your student's future career is the most important.
2- We all know after a short period of teaching if we are good or bad at it. If you are not good at it please don't stay just because it is an income.
Twentysix years ago I was fortunate enough to be asked to teach at the local university. Few could understand why my only condition was not to be paid. But I was very pleased eight years later to be able to leave without having to consider any financial consequences...there were none. I know one has to have a good royalty portfolio or other means to be able to do that, but regardless, I think the attitude and freedom should be the same even if one is well paid.


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Big Television Man
(@big-television-man)
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Posts: 388
02/08/2008 12:35 am  

Koen, I agree with everything you say, save for
the part about the teacher not being very good. Your modesty here is unfounded. You have the resume, the design chops, come across as completely accessible, while being thoroughly erudite in your presentation of a concept.
My hat's off to you for taking the time in helping current design students know "what time it actually is."


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