I was invited to a new store opening in Dallas last week end
the new store had the most wonderful furniture you have ever seen all modern
They also had a section of mid-century modern furniture thrown in all around the store as nice accents, I asked the owner who i have known I did not know you were carrying knoll she said that is not Knoll it Alavar made in Italy . I told her about Design addict and how the
people hate reproductions (she really could have cared less ) the chairs she had on the floor were the Mies lounge chair that looks like it should be in a OB GYN office all you need is stirrups. the Brno,the Barcelona , and several other chairs from Casiina they had both of Corbusiea s little chair and his petite classic. also several chairs by Joseph Hoffman I am hear to report I doubt that if one millionaire at that opening could have cared less that these chairs were what you and
i call reproductions not made by knoll they could have cared less they did have the finest brands like cassina , Ralph Pucci, Richard Schultz design and many others
I thought that this was most interesting since all the blogging that has gone on about this subject
LRF...
Hey there! Was it Contempo? I know that's in Dallas and they sell the same stuff (not sure if Contempo is just open to the trade or not). Most of their pieces are Alivart. When I asked the sales associate there she said taht Alivart is the best at what it does (I'm assuming knock-offs?!) and comes straight fron Italy where all the pieces are made to the exact specs of the originals. She can say that all she wants, but we all know the truth!
yes i think that is...
yes i think that is the name of it.....
it is in the design center but it is open to the public they do contract and to the trade also beautiful new store with great stuff, They said it was Alivat or Alivar from Italy and you could not tell it from a knoll sitting next to it, and proud of it just like knoll !!! and pricey with a few bucks of knoll but t he thing that amazed me more than anything No one could have cared what it was
they had all kinds of folks asking and ordering this stuff,
I thought Alpha ville was good
stuff, that is a like a poor cousin to this line but at the end of the day it is just a reproduction nothing more nothing less~~~
Knoll et al
Does it pass the stainless steel magnet test? Any Knoll knock off of a stainless original (see Brno) in chromed steel better be a real bargain or it's a poor value. Chromed steel is doomed to eventually fail, no matter how well it's done. Any microscopic crack, pit or scratch through the chrome plating and it's only a matter of time. Ashes to ashes, rust to rust ...
the look of knoll
i was told that it was solid stainless steel by alivar
i also heard from the same gal that she had heard now that knoll is making the chrome and the stainless steel and she said she thought that one was being made in CHINA of all places . This whole thing with this company really intriges me No one slams they cause they make reproductions they praise them and say how wonderful there stuff looks
although the brno did look a little puffed up in the seat like they might have used to much foam, since i do
won the original i could pick that one to death but the Barcelona's looked great!!! or just as good as Alphaville the one i think is great also.
rely
i am not going there again !!! You care about theft of copy right I care of theft of copy right but unfountly most do not care. but they should ....... If this was your cause you would have not bought that brno chair for 40 bucks cause it was a reproduction of the Original Brno made by knoll You would be looking at labels all days only wanting originals
The longstanding debate...
The longstanding debate around the issue of real versus reproduction Barcelona Chairs is quickly rising to a veritable feaver pitch. So why the hubbub? The level of interest would seem to indicate a widespread and abiding affection, if not an obsession with this mid century design masterpiece.
Internet chat forums on the subject attract astonishing numbers of inquisitive and surprisingly well informed visitors and posters. One forum alone http://www.designaddict.com has seen 42,000 + visitors to their Barcelona Chair thread - between its inception in October 2002 and the beginning of 2005.
So what's all the fuss about?
Knoll, the only licensed manufacturer of Barcelona chairs has some impressive competition.
Although they make an undeniably beautiful product some of the knock offs are really quite excellent.
Knoll's sumptuous 1.1mm thick, grain corrected Spinneyback Volo leather is perhaps a little thinner and a tinsy bit more sumptuous than Steelform's 1.1mm high grade aniline Italian leather, or Alphaville's full grain aniline Italian leather, but one would have to be quite an officianado to notice or indeed to care about the difference between them.
Knolls expertly hand stitched and piped Barcelona cushions are certainly impressive but the 28 hours that it takes to construct the cushions for one chair, are the same whether they are expertly hand stitched for Knoll or for Alphaville.
And the lovely lines of the Barcelona X chair's legs are just as lovely, and indeed just as structurally sound whether they are bent, welded, ground and polished for Knoll, Steelform, Alphaville or Euro style.
So how is a poor buyer to make a comparative decision about which of the Barcelona Chairs is the best for you?
The answer as they say should lie in the experience - but the difference between a 17" high 30x30 seat and a 16" high 30x30" seat made little impression on my mind or my derriere
From a purely subjective pers...
From a purely subjective perspective, I preferred the firmer seat of the Alphaville and Steelform Barcelona Chairs over the softer seat of the Eurostyle, but Eurostyle has since redesigned their Barcelona chair cushion making the seat a little firmer, and besides which the softness of the seat is a purely subjective matter. I prefer stainless steel over chrome and so would personally tend towards the Alphaville over the Steelform, but even I must admit that I'm not sure if I could identify one over the other if asked to do so.
And so I'm afraid it must come down to a question of authenticity and of course price. This is where we can really dig our teath into objective differences.
Knoll's glorious chair is the only licensed Barcelona Chair on the market; the only chair to bare an imprint of the Mies signature, and the only one that comes with a certificate of authenticity. So if this is what's important to you, then you are in luck; bank account permitting, the decision has been made for you.
If however you are unimpressed by signatures and certificates of authenticity; or if the $4,655 price tag of the Knoll leaves you in a state of shock, then the choice becomes somewhat more complex.
There are four serious contenders to consider here: Alphaville Barcelona Chair, (made in China, distributed from CA, USA), Steelform Barcelona Chair, (made and distributed in Italy - not legally available in the US as of the beginning of 2006), Form by Form Barcelona Chair, (made in Italy distributed from Germany, and difficult to purchase from the US), and Euro Style Barcelona Chair, (made in Italy and distributed from the CA, US).
All but Eurostyle offer a high end full leather aniline model ranging in price from Alphaville's $999 to Steelform's $1,550, however these prices do not take shipping, handling and import fees into account and so are only part of the picture. Our European brethren have the last laugh as they can either benefit from the low US exchange rate or from the lower 'within Europe' shipping rates. Those in the US however will pay an additional $450+ for shipping from Steelform (by sea) in addition to the
If you live in Europe you...
If you live in Europe you may find that the low US dollar exchange rate has some benefits for you. If you should choose to purchase Alphaville's $999 chair and convert it to say, pounds sterling you will find your price is an attractive 436.60 U.K. pounds. Add approximately $450 to that, (240.17 U.K. pounds for air freight - if your supplier has a good relationship with Fed Ex) and you still have quite a deal at about 800 pounds including shipping by sea; Or if you buy from Steelform you would pay about 1065.00 U.K. pounds (at current exchange rates) plus a mere 100 pounds shipping, totaling 1165 UK pounds.
Alphaville also now offers yet another version of their Barcelona Chair that meets the stringent UK fire retardent materials regulations, (more strict than those of the rest of Europe or the US) - This version is 20% more expensive than the usual price of either the aniline or standard Italian Leather. Only available by special order - they take about 12 weeks to ship but for British customers it may be worth your while.
And lastly if price is your primary concern it has to be said that Alphaville's 'standard' Barcelona Chair model with top grain Italian leather, (rather than aniline dyed leather) at around $880 or so (depending on what specials are on offer at the time) from Modern Furniture Classics.com or $1,550.00 from Alphaville direct, is exceptionally good value (even at the higher price); and even more so if you are converting to pounds or Euros.
Although it is not aniline leather, this version of the Barcelona chair looks and feels remarkably similar to the others, but at about half the price it might prove considerably more attractive.
*shrugs* I'm at ease with...
*shrugs* I'm at ease with what I purchased, I saved it from the garbage tip and didn't stimulate demand.
The large companies and the benefactors of the designers are the ones who are being let down.
Imagine your father designs an object, slaves for years and lives in not the best circumstances, finally he finds sucess and he dies...you inherit his estate and find that YOU (not him) are now being stolen from.
But I respect your knowldge LRF and have no interest in fighting online. The camps in this argument will just have to vote with their wallets and let the market sort it out.
I appreciate what you sa...
I appreciate what you say Hp
I just have been around and around with this subject, Every one likes to say the poor designers are getting ripped off with manufactures stealing there designs, for some reason I just don't feel sorry for them, I know that is wrong. but like music there is music that goes into the public domain after awhile ,
I hate fighting with any one to prove my point but unless you,me, and mr. McGee stop buying furniture that is not numbered,authorized, approved by the estate of.... this will happen, If the designers feel so passionate about there work they should have kept them under lock and key with the original manafactures and forced litigation against anyone who copied there original designs, This happended way long before China entered teh picture in the 1990 with there trade policy, and rip off policy ( don't get me started on China as that is a bone in my throat how they rip the world off with cheap crap and poor human rights policy,) SEE MY POINT this has been impossible and is impossible, as long as one person buys something that is reproduced with out the permission of the designer, or original manafacture
i could go on about drug companies, Bill Gates and the IBM story, but i will not bore the hell out of the rest of the design world ,
Dear HP
One does not have to be a lawyer to know that these products are not and can not be protected under the copyright laws unless they are declared "work of art". They are products of industrial design and only protected by either patents, when they are also an invention, or by the legislation on models of industrial design. In that last case, as in the case of inventions the time of protection expires. The legislation had good and valid reasons to limit the period of protection of invention and products of industrial design. I think we should honor these reasons and let the protection time run out when it does. I do not want to justify bad quality copies, but it is up to the consumer to take that decision.
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