Design Addict

Cart

How can this keep h...
 

How can this keep happening? lies about Authenticity  

Page 1 / 5
  RSS

Friend of Design
(@friend-of-design)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 11
04/09/2009 1:45 am  

Does anyone know how Accurato or Contemporary Furniture Store Accurato (Lena Johnson/ President CEO) can claim 'We feature the BEST in contemporary furniture for home and office. Our Contemporary Furniture Designs are Authentic, licensed versions'? And then show an image lifted off the Herman Miller website in conjunction with Modernica? They are also claiming Vitra originals ? I can't speak to that but know that Eames Demetrios would strongly encourage Vitra not to sell to a retailer who deals with Modernia. Do people actually understand what authentic, licensed products are or do they only care about what the price is? If someone loves the design, thinks having the design is desirable and believes in what the designers developed ? why would you drop the ball in the last mile and buy a knock-off?


Quote
JeffB
(@jeffb)
Estimable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 83
11/09/2009 2:28 am  

I won't address your ...
I won't address your specific concerns in regards to Accurato but, I will state that I have done business with them on several occassions and would not hesitate to continue to do so in the future.


ReplyQuote
LenaEliz
(@lenaeliz)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
11/09/2009 3:03 am  

Accurato.com President/CEO Refutes Your Claim
As the President and CEO of http://www.Accurato.com I think I can clear up this matter for you. First of all, I have no idea what photo you are talking about that was lifted off the Herman Miller website. All our photos of Modernica products have been provided by Modernica. Perhaps you are referring to one of our Vitra Miniature chairs by Charles Eames that is manufactured by Vitra and for which Vitra provided photos.
In reference to the Modernica products, Charles Eames created the Eiffel Chair (shell chair) originally out of fiberglass. We promote this chair (manufactured by Modernica) as the only chair manufactured today in the original fiberglass material. Herman Miller is making the same chair in a molded plastic, but we do not sell that one. However, our design savvy customers prefer the original fiberglass material, just as Charles Eames designed it so they purchase our Modernica Case Study furniture models. Modernica states on their website at http://www.Modernica.net that Modernica is the official manufacturer for all Case Study Furniture worldwide. So, if you have a problem with the Modernica claim, I believe that it is the ownership at Modernica to whom you should direct your inquiry.
In addition, since Mr. Eames designed this chair over 50 years ago, the design copyright laws have expired and you will see numerous plastic shell eiffel chair knock offs on the internet now coming in from China. Anyone can now manufacture and sell the Eames chair models, they just cannot use the Eames name as Herman Miller holds the trademark to the Eames name.
As far as Vitra originals, http://www.Accurato.com is an authorized Vitra dealer. Vitra is the manufacturer (in Europe) and Herman Miller is the marketer (in the U.S) for the Eames chairs (in plastic, not the original fiberglass). If Vitra engaged in anticompetitive conduct by requiring their dealers not to sell the Modernica line of chairs, this would suppress competition of the Modernica product while favoring the Herman Miller product that Vitra manufactures. This would be a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act in that the policy would conspire to create a monopoly in the U.S. by controlling the market in regard to a specific furniture product.
Sincerely,
Lena Johnson, President/CEO of www.Accurato.com
http://www.accurato.com


ReplyQuote
barrympls
(@barrympls)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2649
11/09/2009 4:51 am  

Fine and dandy
but the reforumation of the plastic chair was done during Ray Eames' lifetime and consent, and I believe the Eames Studio worked with Herman Miller to make the plastic chairs without the fiberglass material that are harmful to the enviornment.
I prefer the fiberglass chairs, yes, but it's totally appropriate for Herman Miller to continue to sell this chair that is more environmentally friendly. (Remember, it was Herman Miller, along with Knoll and the other modern furniture makers) to dump latex foam rubber when it was proven that it stiffens, turns to dust, and many people are allergic to it.


ReplyQuote
LenaEliz
(@lenaeliz)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
11/09/2009 9:07 am  

Since when is Plastic Eco-Friendly?
I am very confused why anyone claims that any chair made of plastic is eco-friendly. Why is Herman Miller making this claim? All plastics, including the polypropylene shells that Herman Miller sells, begin with the raw material of crude oil. This oil is drilled from the ground, transported to a refinery and processed into various forms, then transported again to a factory to be made into plastic, then transported again to the end user. There is an enormous amount of energy used in processing the crude oil to be made into a plastic material. Drilling oil out of the ground is not eco-friendly. It results in spills every year with incredible ecological damage. Thus, I don't believe Herman Miller's claim that they switched from fiberglass to polypropylene as it is more environmentally friendly, because this is not a logical argument. I would believe however, that they did it because it was faster and cheaper... To see a short animation video on how crude oil is made into plastic, go to http://www.totalpetrochemicalsusa.com/flash/WellheadToPlastics.swf
http://www.totalpetrochemicalsusa.com/flash/WellheadToPlastics.swf


ReplyQuote
NULL NULL
(@teapotd0meyahoo-com)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4318
11/09/2009 9:28 am  

Fiberglass shells
Are mostly plastic too....
And fiberglass.


ReplyQuote
LenaEliz
(@lenaeliz)
Active Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 5
11/09/2009 9:39 am  

Yes, fiberglass is plastic too
No argument there... They are both not environmentally friendly... Anyone who makes claims otherwise is not facing reality.


ReplyQuote
chewbacca rug (USA)
(@chewbacca-rug-usa)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 230
11/09/2009 11:28 am  

yuck.
just admit you sell knock-offs and that you don't care. anything for a buck, right ?


ReplyQuote
fastfwd
(@fastfwd)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1721
11/09/2009 1:37 pm  

Wow.
That's pretty harsh, Chewbacca, isn't it?
The Modernica "knockoffs" are made by the same guy who made the original Eames shells, using the same equipment, and with the same material. They look and feel more-or-less exactly like those originals.
The "authentic" chairs are made by some other company, using different materials, and they don't look anything like the originals.
If we were talking about most of Modernica's other products, I'd probably be agreeing with you... But I don't see how you can call the unlicensed fiberglass shells "knockoffs" when they're indisputably more faithful to the original than the licensed polypropylene chairs.


ReplyQuote
chewbacca rug (USA)
(@chewbacca-rug-usa)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 230
11/09/2009 2:16 pm  

knock-offs..........
are not licensed or authorized by the designers, the designers estate or the original manufacturer.
every time someone buys or sells a knock-off they are stealing from the designer, the designer's estate and the original manufacturer.
its theft.


ReplyQuote
fenlander
(@fenlander)
New Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 4
11/09/2009 3:27 pm  

who is kidding who
Surely the founding fathers of the Bauhaus movement would have delighted in the fact that China is able to turn out cheap well made copies of their designs. Wasn't 'good design for the masses' a basic tennant of the modern movement? - Gropius et al would have loved IKEA and hated Vitra


ReplyQuote
HPau
 HPau
(@hpau)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2534
11/09/2009 3:48 pm  

.
I like to think that those pioneering modernists (along with most of their generation) would be apalled at the greed and attitude of disposability that companies like IKEA pander too.
He wasn't called the Silver Prince for nothing...to paraphrase Claude Schnaidt they weren't prepared for the mercantile instinct of the bourgeousie. Its too easy to stick them in an ideological basket, they were complex people working in a very conflicted institution, but ultimately after having suffered at the hands of one totalitarian state I doubt they'd be too pleased to see their work produced in another.


ReplyQuote
fastfwd
(@fastfwd)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1721
11/09/2009 4:13 pm  

Chewbacca
Yeah, yeah... I get it. But:
a) If I want a fiberglass shell and don't buy Modernica, my only option is to buy a preowned old Zenith/Century/Herman Miller/whatever. If I buy a preowned chair, the seller might make a profit, but Lucia and Eames and Llisa and the rest of the grandkids won't get any of it. Is that stealing, too?
b) I have no reason to believe that Sol Fingerhut would have refused to build new chairs for Herman Miller rather than for Modernica... But HM didn't ask him and Modernica did. Am I stealing from Herman Miller and the Eameses if I buy something that they not only don't make, but don't even WANT to make?
c) I've already bought that dead Eames guy's desk, his big storage unit, his sofa, his plywood lounge, a bunch of his tables, and his coatrack. Is his grandson or any of the 5,000 employees of that huge furniture company even going to NOTICE whether I've also bought the nasty-looking polypreplica of his fiberglass chair that they make? What if I buy a Modernica chair and then reimburse the Eames Office for their "lost" royalties by mailing them a few dollars? Will that make it ok? What if I send them a hundred-dollar bill? How about a check for a thousand dollars? And if giving them money WON'T make it ok, then what exactly am I "stealing" from them by buying Modernica?
d) Knoll, a company about half the size of Herman Miller, can afford to litigate intellectual-property claims and is actively doing so. Herman Miller has double Knoll's revenue and 15 times Knoll's cash; if they wanted to stop Modernica from making fiberglass shells, they could... But they haven't even done a big anti-knockoff publicity campaign like Cassina did for the Le Corbusier designs, or gotten trade-dress protection like Knoll did for the Mies designs. I know I asked a question similar to this about a month ago when we were talking about another Modernica product, but I'll ask it again: If Herman Miller doesn't care enough about their IP to defend it, why should I care about it?
e) I can't believe I'm actually participating in this predictable, no-win, pointless debate. And worse, I even sorta started it. God, I hate myself.
f) I don't even like the Eames shells.


ReplyQuote
LuciferSum
(@lucifersum)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1874
11/09/2009 11:12 pm  

Stupid discussion without context
Uggh.. I'm so tired of these blathering discussions where no one pays attention to context. Guess what - fiberglass was NOT the original material. PLYWOOD was. (photo 1)
And when that didn't work the Eames went to...wait for it...STAMPED METAL. (photo 2)
And only when THAT didn't work, only then did the Eames go to fiberglass.
And guess what - the Eames (themselves - in their lifetimes) also changed just about EVERY feature on just about ALL of their chairs as soon as a new material came along that was proven better. The glides changed, the frames changed, the bases changed (photo 3), the wood changed, the shockmounts changed, the upholstery changed, hell even the types of screws used to hold the bases changed.
And if you don't know this, as it appears many people here don't, you should probably refrain from making statements in the discussion about authenticity and originality.


ReplyQuote
chewbacca rug (USA)
(@chewbacca-rug-usa)
Noble Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 230
12/09/2009 4:34 am  

the point is......
people should not manufacture nor buy nor sell items that are not authorized or licensed.
simple as that...... if you want to split a million different hairs, if you want to wax philosophical, why go right ahead.
but there are pretty basic fundamental truisms of what is ethical and what is not and they are so simple even a child can understand.
you can rationalize and justify until we all want to scream, but its kind of a fool's errand isn't it ?


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 5
Share:

If you need any help, please contact us at – info@designaddict.com

  
Working

Please Login or Register