For years I have heard that there was big rift that lasted till death between these two men.
No need to bring up the History of the two at Cranbrook , Eames the teacher and Bertoia the head of sculpture .The rift happened when Eames started making the wire chairs in the early 1950's, 2 years after Bertoia started having them made by Knoll Associates , out of loyalty to his good friend Florence and Hans Knoll who had known since he came to America and met at Cranbrook .
Bertoia thought that Eames betrayed him after years of research and working on the chair on his farm .
Eames came up with a differnt design not to conflict with the diamond chair but the side shell chair was very close to Bertoias side shell chair. This caused such a fight between these two Men that to the end they did not speak . Eames did have a friendly relationship with Florence Knoll as both had a mutual respect for each other and a fondness for there close friend eero Saarinen.
In the 60's competion was growing between Herman Miller and Knoll who could get to the market with new designs. It was like Ford and G.M.
LRF, earlier Harry was part of the Eames Office.
Please, anyone out there correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't remember exactly where I read this, but the problem between Harry Bertoia and the Eames started when Harry was part of the Eames Office. Specifically, the rift began with the metal frame to the DCM/LCM, that was apparently Bertoia's creation. The chair was winning universal acclain, but all the while Harry's contribution was never acknowleged for it. Harry grew so upset over it, he quit the Eames Office. He was then snapped up by Florence Knoll.
Then the problem was compounded with the wire chair debacle and the "double wire" on the rim, which Charles had previously patented.
Again, my memory in this is sketchy at best. Anyone out know more?
I remember where I read this now....
I'm so silly, I read it right HERE! A thread from a couple of years ago called: Bertoia's influence on Eames.
It's all there:
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/th...
poor diction
oh geez, I just read my first post and I just butchered a sentence (sorry, I'm a little drunk). It should read:
The chair was winning universal acclaim, but all the while Harry's contribution to the design was never acknowleged. Harry grew so upset over it, he quit the Eames Office....
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/th...
a funny thing
I have about 5 original wire chairs from around 1951 from Knoll and they a re single wire. My neighbor got two new wire chairs from Furniture Fancy on line in chrome and they were double wire. I think if I am not mistaken there was a big lawsuit or some broo ha ha about the double wire between knoll and Herman miller around 1950 and Bertoia changed that Diamond chair for the knoll chairs cause the Eames wires were all double wire. and Charles was furious with Bertoia saying in stole the idea while at the Eames studio's
the funny thing is that Alphaville who started making repoductions in China said o.k. we won't make the single wire Like Knoll cause we will be sued for sure so we will make the original wire and see how many smart people out in Design land will really know the origin of this one!!!! It was the way the original chair was suppose to look before the lawsuit . I think we caught alphaville trying to be real smart......Always looking to be corrected if I am worng.....
They probably weren't being...
They probably weren't being smart, I think it's just a coincidence.
I have a friend with two side chairs with double wire that are original. It came with his house that he bought along with a diamond chair. The owner said the three chairs were bought at the same time, but the diamond is a single wire. I would guess they probably bought them in 51' but they still had leftover stock from the original two wire chairs with the side chair version. Just a guess.
Harry and Charles
my wires are single and my eames wires are double . I had heard that the lawsuite was yjr cause of Bertoia wanting to do the double wires on his side chairs for strength . but when the prototype was shown Eames saw it and through a big fit and that is When Herman Miller entered the picture with a lawsuite and they made them single wires .
Knoll got the last laugh cause when you go to the out door garden of MOMA and you see 50 wire chairs sitting around the garden you think that someone did something right as they have a 50 year history of making the heavy gage wire chair and it is better now then it was 50 years ago being re tweaked all the time to make it more perfect, . I have read a lot of things about Eames at least 4 books,... nothing ever bad or ill will, It does seem rather contradictory that he would get into a shouting match with Bertoia but I really can see how Bertoia felt when he did get slighted, about the wire chair, one of the most popular and beloved chairs of all time . That chair after 60 years still amazes me and i am sure the design world.
LRF, you should
probably read the old thread. I don't think there was ever a fit or a shouting match. And Harry was slighted over the DCM.
Herman Miller and Knoll were fierce competitors, and the lawsuit was simply one company finding a opportunity to stick it to it's biggest competitor. The battle between Herman Miller and Knoll should not be confused with the relationships between the designers. Case in point: The Eames and the Saarinens were great friends. But in 1954 Eero wrote a letter to Hans Knoll about his idea for the pedestal series and wrote (this is a direct quote):
"I have come up with an idea that I think will wipe Herman Miller off the map!"
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/th...
That quote was documented
in the last Modernism Magazine, Spring 2007, page 89.
http://www.designaddict.com/design_addict/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/th...
modernism mag
I read that article ...It is still a
wonderment to me from all the other stuff that i have read about the relationship with Eames and Saarinen and Florance knoll, with the last two being like family since Florance had no family other than the Saarinens .
If you had read any of the books Eames was not that happy with Cranbrook only had a 1 year stay there.
When George Nelson came a calling he went to Herman Miller to market his designs and made a great Royalty deal for himself,
The Knolls wanting to compete head on with a company that had a 35 year head start started there Associates program and Royalty program and had the likes of Saarinene and Bertoia , and a few others to start building a company with .
I have read there was a real chill when Bertoia was developing
his wire chairs since he had been working on them for a good 8 years
before Eames started to put them in the Herman Miller line in the fall of 1951 . Knolls came out around the same time ,
I had read in some papers
that the two really never spoke after the chairs went in production for Herman Miller Knoll started there run of the wire chairs and Bertoia became famous as a artist Scuplture and developer of great Chairs . His friendship with George Nelson was not harmed by the fallout with Eames.
Herman Miller did file the lawsuit on the design of the double wires on the chair. I am sorry but i do not know how it turned out, I assume it was settled when the minor change to single wires for Knoll double wires for Herman Miller was created seems like something silly but all things considering .. back then it was pivotal to protect your designs cause there was not that many knew designs coming out , I can just wonder what Eames was thinking when his award winning design of the lounge chair was being knocked off in Denmark by Selig and then Plycraft .
I have read
the books, thank you. I prefer the wealth of knowledge provided by this forum's regular contributors, as they have, on more than one occassion, found inaccuracies in many well known reference books.
Anyways, here is a 1961 portrait of the happy family, with Harry and Charles side by side on a wire diamond and a dcm:
beloved
I was just about to quote the exact same thing. Strange.
Anyway, yes, there were a lot of designs coming out during this period. I don't know where you get that.
LRF - no offense here, but it is apparent that you have read up on these designers, because you do pull out a number of facts that would not be known otherwise. BUT - you seem to have a tendency to "fill in the gaps" for yourself and believe them as fact and to slightly mix up the actual facts. On top of that I think you are romanticizing these "shouting matches" into something they are not.
Believe me, it's fun to imagine what might have gone on behind closed doors .....
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