Not just a dealers
... but collectors too. That's how we got into dealing. You can only collect so much stuff, then you have to start letting some go.
I'm not just hung up on the price of things either. Part of the appeal of collecting is finding things that are not readily available. When you find a rare item, you cherish it even more. We have a nice collection and have a number of very hard to find pieces, but we've also let go of some of the rarest things we've had (some I regret, some not so much) 'cause after all, we gotta make a living. Also, when you have been collecting and buying things for quite some time, you also realize that there will be other cool things that will come along.
By definition, you can collect ANYthing. Rocks, Faberge eggs, unsharpened pencils, celebrity autographs... but some things are easier to come by than others. The thrill of the hunt is part of it for me and if I need not look any further than the local DWR or type in eBay on the computer, well, that's just not as much fun. Most of the pieces in our collection have stories that accompany them.
I love the clocks that we are discussing in this latest Vitra re-issue. Maybe even enough to think about buying one. But I probably won't . There are others. The cone base desk clock is one that I love and can be bought for $340 on line. I've considered getting one, just as I've considered selling my vintage key-wind spool clock (only because Vitra re-issued that design!) but I can't. The desk clock would not be special to me. It would be just a purchase, where I'll always remember seeing an arm of our spool clock sticking out of a plastic bag in the garage of a junk shop before the owner said to me "Oh, you'd like that clock. It's very 1950s. I want $3 for it."
You have spent years putting together your collection and I'm sure you had to pay handsomely for some of the clocks. And I think it's great that you love your clocks and don't worry about the monetary value or just look at them as an investment, but as your passion. It just seems a shame to me if all this reproduction makes the original even a just little less special.
nice response david... 🙂 I...
nice response david... 🙂 I agree, there is the thrill of the chase to find these rare items. I can't imagine getting that spool clock for $3. "Very 1950's" haha... I do frequent vintage shops and antique dealers and such...even estate sales sometimes and honestly, all of my vintage finds have came from ebay or craigslist - and yes, I even have some Vitra clocks (the only HM clock I have is the Chronopak). I'd love to get one of those $3 deals, but they are pretty rare and I have yet to encounter one. Maybe someday...but until then, I've got my eye on a polygon clock whenever they launch here in the states! You do have some extremely unique stuff in your shop, and I commend you for the eye that you have. Keep up the good work!
I can see both sides, but I...
I can see both sides, but I tend to side with the "design for the masses" crowd. Only because these items were meant to be enjoyed, and it's the exclusivity of modernism that has made it globally unsuccessful. Our tendency to want rare items that no one else has just for the sake of being special is what excludes others.
It's quite selfish if you ask me, to want to keep good design from the masses when the only difference in them and us is a matter of expendable income. Is it special because you (the universal you) have it and your neighbor doesn't or is it special because it is good design? You have to define "special" and what it means to you.
A main proponent of modernism is good, mass produced design. Isnt that the very thing that makes people consider the early Thonet chairs (of traditional lines) to be inherently modern? The fact that is wasn't special and was/is good? If we don't follow that, we are merely collectors of modernism and not necessarily champions of the movement and what it represents.
I'm not violently opposed
to all the reissues. In fact, I have real mixed emotions about it. On one hand, the design objects we admire were intended to serve a function. Be that a place to sit, to tell us the time, to help make our coffee or get us from one place to another.
It can seem silly (certainly to outsiders) that there are people like us who fetishize chairs, lamps, clocks or textile designs. Most folks just buy what they need and like OK without putting that much thought into it. I even feel that on one level it's wrong to spend what we do on some of these things. I mean $300 for a clock or $3000 for a chair seems out of line when there are folks who have nothing to eat let alone a comfortable, well designed chair to sit on. But that's a whole other discussion.
I agree that many of the designers would love to see their work produced, purchased, and enjoyed again if they were still here (some still are and are enjoying the renewed interest in their work). I also can't help but wonder if some would suggest that many of those designs were of that time and that we (and they, if they were here now) should be looking to produce designs that are relevant to our current time. Not reproduce the past. I mean, the Vitra clocks are lovely and quite well made from what I've seen. But are they relevant to today's concerns or do they appeal to our sense of nostalgia, or are they catering to the interest that has been generated by the attention (and $) the original clocks are now getting?
Part of me says "Oh, nice. I love that design... and HEY! I can afford that one where I can't either find or afford a vintage example" But then my thoughts change to what I said before... I could buy one, but it would be just a purchase. No history to the piece, no story of how I came to own it. Then my interest wains.
When I think about our vintage collection. I kind of consider us as just caretakers of these things. We live with most of it, use it daily. We try to take care of them? we know that we won't be around forever, and someday hopefully somebody else's life will be enriched with these objects.
reactcreative and...
reactcreative and whitespike, you summed up my sentiments very nicely.
Pegboard, I understand why demand for and hence price of a vintage item sometimes* goes down when a reissue hits the market, and how that is unwelcome for a dealer.
What I don't get is why the original loses its intrinsic value to you when a reissue is launched?
Vintage is still vintage.
* As woodywood and Robert note, reissues can have the opposite effect too. Case in point: The Papa Bear chair.
Sometimes a reissue will...
Sometimes a reissue will make buyers aware of the vintage piece whereas they might not have been prior. Then desire increases, and thus sometimes value. It can work both ways no?
I still say the issue most have with it boils down no money, which isn't all bad (I mean, you have to pay the rent), but isn't exactly a viable argument rooted in ethics.
I've pretty much stopped buying new items altogether, unless it makes sense. But I don't always buy vintage either ... for instance my dining set of Eames DCMS are simply used, but not old. My thought is that reuse is responsible, and by doing so I help my pocketbook and the planet ... and honestly, I wouldn't want a dining set of vintage DCMs as much as I love the design. The new ones I don't have to worry about shockmount failure and because they are used and pre-scratched/dinged I don't have to worry about that either. It makes both my @ss and my emotion comfortable. The last thing I want is to worry about inanimate objects with guests around. My toddler can beat the tar out of these things as far as I am concerned, and I still get to enjoy the design. I will be the one making them vintage because they aren't going anywhere!!! And at 100 bucks each used, a lifetime of quality is a bargain!!!
Maybe I'm selfish...
but I care about the monetary and intrinsic value of my collection of originals. I'd like to have both, as it was a pretty significant financial investment.
I've come full circle on the reissues. From what I can tell, they keep the designer in the spotlight. Being featured by MOMA, DWR, the Art Institute can only help bring attention to one's designs.
A design only has monetary value if demand exceeds supply; and demand comes from this type of attention. So I for one welcome Vitra's reissues; and I'm glad they're not exact copies. [I just picked up the 3 ceramic desk clocks from Vitra; they're great, but the finish looks nothing like the originals I've seen.] It makes it easier to tell them apart from my originals while fueling interest.
Speaking of interest, the Vitra Nelson Exhibit is officially coming to America in 2011.
http://www.design-museum.de/museum/ausstellungen/nelson/index.php
some pictures of our reproductions and my collection
1 st try at posting pictures , hope this works, not very computer savy, More pics at: www.geocities.com/kenshotus/
http://s876.photobucket.com/albums/ab325/ken_111/repro%20clocks/
reactcreative
We went to a local metal place here that did laser cutting. I took the hands off my vintage clocks to them and they made exact copies in aluminum. We have a friend who is an excellent wood turner, who made the face of the Pretzel clock for us, the arms for that clock were made at a blacksmiths shop. Took a couple tries for them to get it just right. I must give my friend most of the credit for the construction. He is a master wood worker and a real stickler for doing a job right. Anything he could figure out how to build on his own, or construct or paint, he did so. What we could not do we farmed out to others who could. He had actually been making a few clocks before we even met: the Ball, the Steering Wheel, and the Asterisk. The clocks I have pictured that he made are: the Steering Wheel, the Flock of Butterflies, the Wheel, the Petal, the Tri-Kite, the Pretzel, Popsicle, and Bird Cage, and on my website link: the Eyeclock, and the little Grey and White Desk clock. We had originally planned on trying to market them, but didn't think we could compete with Vitra, now we just do them for ourselves for fun.
you can certainly compete...
you can certainly compete with Vitra on the ones they don't produce. I'd definitely be interested in the popsicle clock, thats one of my favs as well. How much do you think he'd charge for that, or is selling not really in his signt at this point? Regardless, they are beautiful and honestly, comparing them with my book from Vitra, they look pretty much dead on. Impressed!
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