The other threads about reproductions got me thinking again and I have a couple questions I wanted to ask outside of the conversation with RMR Mike about the knock-offs he is trying to shill. I have never, and will never, buy knock-offs of the variety that you see on the RMR Furniture site. I can say that without concern for being pretentious in the least. In my opinion, that kind of product is not even worth what they are selling it for, and I'd be ashamed to have it in my home. I would rather sit on a plastic milk crate around a wooden wire spool. Now, to my mind the hierarchy of modern furniture (and I'll use an Eames Lounge chair and ottoman as my example) would break down like this:
Most desirable would be an early vintage example in excellent condition.
Next would be a vintage example with condition issues.
Next would be a recent production example from the original manufacturer (in this case Herman Miller).
Next would be a vintage "wanna' be", like a Plycraft version.
Nest would be a vintage "wanna' be" with condition issues.
After that, I would abandon having a chair of that style all together and look for something inexpensive, but well designed. Either vintage (there are lots of nice anonymous lounge chairs with ottomans out there) or if all else failed, new from some place like Ikea.
If I did not have enough cash for a second-hand vintage chair or something from Ikea, I'd fashion my own furniture out of found materials.
I would never, at any price, buy a "Barcelona dining chair" from RMR. To me it would be like bringing an inflatable love doll to a class reunion and introducing it as my spouse.
But that is just me.
I know there are those on the forum who have purchased knock-offs and have defended that decision as well as those who think that it is contrary to the interest and passion many of us have for these designs and their designers. I'm curious where others would rank the choices we have regarding the objects we choose to live with and how we spend our money.
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A couple additional points I thought worth making are that if you buy vintage furniture, you are typically getting that which is closest to the designers original vision. Compromises have often been made by manufacturers, sometimes as a cost savings measure, sometimes for reasons beyond their control. Again using the Eames lounge chair as an example, they were originally intended to be veneered in rosewood. Herman Miller had to discontinue that (for the right reasons), and while the Santos Palsander version is quite nice, to my eye it still falls short of rosewood with a nice vintage patina.
Also, you are making an investment. A real Eames lounge can rarely be found on the cheap, but if you are going to spend 3 or 4 grand on a chair, wouldn't you rather have one that is going to still be worth that in the years to come? Most likely more.
Now before you remind me what a ridiculous sum that is to pay for a chair to sit in, I'll let you know I agree. But then I'll also remind you that a great many things in life that are worth having are not cheap. It's also a matter of priorities. I drive a Ford econoline van (so I can move furniture, otherwise I'd have a more fuel efficient car) which I got second hand. I've never bought a new car in my life. I see a car as a necessary evil and spend as little as I can, and drive the most utilitarian vehicle I can find. Others love sportscars and fine automobiles. They also spend tens of thousands of dollars on them. That's fine for them, but me, I'd rather have original art or good quality designer furniture. Same with fashion. Have you looked at what new clothes cost lately? I get both cool vintage and also nearly new (sometimes brand new, unworn) clothes from the thrift stores. I can get an entire outfit for what some people pay for a shirt. Again, it's just a matter of priorities.
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Lastly, something that folks rarely want to cop to is the exclusive quality of designer furniture. I'll be very candid here and say that part of the appeal of a lot of the vintage modern furniture is the relative scarcity of it. The fact that so many designs are being brought back into production diminishes the appeal a bit for me. The fact that they are being wildly knocked off really makes it less attractive. I love Kjaerholm's work. That Fritz Hansen still makes it is fine, but the fact that White Furniture is knocking it off made me realize that I can totally live without it. Quality aside, why would I want to pony up for a couple PK22 chairs by Fritz Hansen when they are selling them for a few hundred bucks at White? Now, if I found an early E. Kold Christiansen chair for cheap, you can bet I'd buy it. But I'm big enough to admit that the pieces in our collection that I am most proud of are those that you can't just go out and buy new. At any price. Not because of any monetary value, but because they make our collection and our home more unique. Plus they represent a lot of looking and searching. We may not have paid a fortune for them, but we paid our dues with years of hunting. These special pieces all have stories associated with them.
Do we have classics that are redily available in our collection? Sure. But they are designs we truly love, often early examples, and we got them at a very reasonable price. For me, the fact that some designs are in every Room and Board and DWR catalogue, that they are in every hair product commercial, is like your favorite underground band having a top ten smash hit and being played on the radio every 5 minutes. What was once fresh, different, unique and exciting becomes stale, lackluster and familiar. Not that it's bad. On the contrary, it is often very good and that is why a lot of people like it. It's just that something which has been special to you is now a bit played out.
I'm rambling here, but I hope you get my point. There is a reason a vintage Nelson bench in an uncommon size with a nice patina is more desireable than a new four-footer. There are a lot fewer of them, and you are not going to question whether it came from Herman Miller or RMR Furniture.
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My regime for buying goes like this (and I've virtually stopped buying and have to start giving away)...
All points have to balance well.
Is it beautiful? Is it well made? Can it be repaired?
Do I need it? Were the working conditions of its manufacture acceptable? Does it use scarce or toxic materials? Will buying it profit a business I can't respect? Can I get parts into the future? What warranty is offered?
I don't often consider intellectual property, even though I think its important, because applying those criteria almost certainly exclude businesses like Mikes.
It's pretty late in the...
It's pretty late in the night to fully address this post. I'll do a quick response.
Design is of utmost importance to me, not so much Designer.
On equal footing is resale value. Many of designs aren't cheap, and to take a loss isn't acceptable, much like PM's used car analogy. Big problem is that taste can change with time, including design awareness..the tide ebbs and flows. As Beloved says...applies not just to furniture. Clothing being an exception for me. Rather spend a small fortune for clothes I like, fits well and looks great. Thrifting for clothes for average sized and fit adult males is difficult. I'm gearing up for custom talored three piece suits. Totally worth it to me!
I don't think all reproductions are bad. There's nothing like being with someone you truly deeply love, but being with someone for companionship is beautiful unto itself.
Why aren't the Plycraft or...
Why aren't the Plycraft or Selig version of the Eames lounger included as "do not buy knock offs" at all cost?
There are many (if not most or all) in this forum who have bought "knock-offs"...or designs highly influenced by a designer piece to be virtually indistinguishable from an original to an uninformed eye.
Are we guilty and should hold our heads in shame?
So, just to be clear
So just to be clear woof-woof: Authentic pieces are our soul-mates, and knock-offs are just hookers? 😀
To me, the role that deception plays in knock-offs is really upsetting. When I first got my Plycraft I did everything I could to make it look as much like the authentic 670 as I could. But it didn't matter what I did, it was still always a Plycraft, and every time someone saw it and said "Nice Eames chair!" I would have to explain that no, it wasn't in fact, an Eames. As a chair itself I found the Plycraft comfortable, and when I gave it to my friend (who has NO design sense) he LOVED it - just as a chair, with no name attached to it, and that was fine. That was his soulmate...but it was just a one night stand for me:)
You could consider that...
You could consider that Lucifer. The point I was saying, we've all dated...is dating wrong? Does dating lead purposefully nowhere?
Knock offs do lead to greater appreciation of original designs and the history behind them.
Sure decption is bothersome. I do make exceptions to well produced sincere copies. I firmly believe my Modernica CSU (Eames ESU)circa 2000 is an exceptional, well built and sincere product. The only copied designer product I own. Am I the devils advocate?
WoofWoof
You wrote "Why aren't the Plycraft or Selig version of the Eames lounger included as "do not buy knock offs" at all cost?"
My rationale is this. While some of the Plycraft chair designs were highly derivative of the Eames lounge, they have two things in their favor. They are vintage, and buy using one of these you are recycling. Always a good thing in my book. Also some of the designs, while similar to the Eames lounge, have unique qualities of their own. There are a number of similarities, but the Plycraft chair is not trying to masquerade as a real Eames Lounge. It's more of a case of being influenced by something rather than blatantly copying it. It's also been noted here before that Plycraft employed some of the same designers responsible for some of our favorite designs made by other manufacturers. To me there is a considerable difference between having a Plycraft lounge chair and buying a contemporary knock-off of the Eames lounge.
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