Right to the point...taken from my understanding of an article I read specifically about identifying "Three specific categories exist of furniture" to be....number one 1. Knock offs 2. Then Licensed period "Replicas" and the third category to be... 3. Prototypes ( which virtually are non-existant ) I have FIRMLY identified and unquestionably confirmed the two "Tugendhat Armchairs" I have were made under Mies van der Rohe's supervision by Edward Duckett, and custom crafted by metal worker and Stainless Steel metallurgist Gerald A. Griffith post 1950. Who can I trust to give me an accurate insight for there real value today? My thoughts are that these chairs being so historically important...they belong in a Chicago museum. These chairs were recognized to be made by even ( Franz Schulze's critical biography of Mies) as noted a "Revisions to the Barcelona Funiture and Tugendhat Chair" in 1950.
http://harvardmagazine.com/2006/03/living-with-modern-furni.html
Have you read this?
Have you read this? Subject: Taken from the "Critical Biography" of MIES VAN DER ROHE written by Franz Schulze. Following the Acknowledgements page and the Preface pages in this book you will find a "LIST OF BUILDINGS and PROJECTS by Mies van der Rohe. "This list is confined to works that Mies designed exclusively or that, especially in his later American career, were carried out in substantial design detail by his office under his supervision. It does not include projects that did not reach the working or presentation drawing stage. On page "XX Twenty" Project Identified: in the year 1950' Revision in stainless steel of Barcelona Exposition furniture and Tugendhat Chair.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tugendhat_chair?wasRedirected=true
http://www.interiordesign.net/TalkBack/Comments?article_id=405206&articl...
This message....
comes up from time to time, and I have to agree that the price Wright offered you was (considering mark-ups etc.) a realistic one.
As mentioned by tynellbuyer this is not a prototype, it could be a study model, but even then tynellbuyer's comments apply. If you have a documented personal link to the this product or to the reasons why it was made, it could make a difference, but this is no "Antiques Road Show" where knowledgeable people quote "value" but not the price you could sell it for to an auction house or trader.
Well....i did ask for it....your opinions, professional in your mind or not...
I have to laugh...to myself after reading the recent postings. The true value will only be what someone is ultimately willing to pay for an item. I have never misunderstood this simple rule and law that can be and is applied to many or all aspects of "Sales"...such as real estate, vehicles, patio furniture, jewelry and on and on. Anything that may fall within the collectible markets is no exception. All due respect....I could NOT disagree with you more completely! Again, I disagree with your opinion about the value of these chairs...and yes you must be smoking something very special to launch you in thought such as these...truly in your own strastosphere...lol. I also question the depth of your knowledge when it comes to Mies furniture history...and further question how you could label yourself a "Professional" in this field. The relevancy and history of these chairs could not be easily understood buy such amateures of Mies history in furniture. I should have expected such loose and blind guesses in any such responses. Let's face it any valid professional collector would NEVER let themselves become caught giving there opinions without...seeing the pieces first, and second...a clear and exact in depth understanding of the furniture designer's(Mies) history. I do however expect to find enviable critics filled with gealousy...to give senseless opinions. I should have also figured that there would be a strong possibility that I would find these same people to hold very very little credible knowledge about Atchitecture and Design. If you really knew and understood just how much of a perfectionist Mies was you never would have posted such a STUPID reply. You CLEARLY are not a professional in furniture, or perhaps you are and your hope is to test me. Trust me, the last verifiable cash offer I had is all the proof I need to know just how deeply filled you remain with "ENVY" or how "CLUE-LESS" you are about collectible Mies furniture. Perhaps you just diddle in anything of mid-century modern design, this would make sense of your silly posted reply. You are correct, this is not "Antique Road-Show" but only a avenue for fun. I now realize that for me to continue commenting and posting further comments will only be a waste of my "Energy and Time". If you think I am wrong, then you think I am wrong, we shall see.
Coolwater AKA the foolish man with no manners
"If you really knew and understood just how much of a perfectionist Mies was you never would have posted such a STUPID reply."
Do you know how many incorrect spellings, run-on sentences, and silly grammatical mistakes your posting has? You, sir, are the only one here that should go by the adjectives you have so rudely attached to the gracious members of DA. You write like a slow-minded elementary student. Unfortunately, the perfectionism you claim Mies to have has not rubbed off on you from the leather of those fine chairs.
Perhaps English is not your native tongue. I assume it isn't. Either way, manners is something that is learned even before one must learn the ins and outs of communicating in King's English. You can not do either justice.
Your initial posting was defensive before anyone could offend. Your title with "TRUE" screaming out in all caps only makes me wonder if you are trying to convince yourself. And, of course you are. No one else cares what your hunk of calf skin and steel is worth.If you knew so much you wouldn't have come here with this question. And, you're right, they are worth what someone will pay. How is anyone to know how rich, or overly excited, or hasty the last bidder will be? And if you believe your statement about value, simply auction them and receive what they will give.
Lastly, it is you who did not provide any real proof or photographs to pick from. And it is you who criticized us for having opinions before any of this was offered. So, if you knew that you must have these items in place in order to get a proper opinion, were you simply baiting the hook so you could criticize the first man who offers his view? I think so. And if so, then I am right. You are an asshole. And you never came here to get a real evaluation. You came here to be a prick. And you succeeded.
Just know several of us here are those deep pocketed, enthusiastic buyers in the audience at these auctions. They don't call it "Design Addict" for nothing. So it is you, kind sir, who is "stupid."
Yours truly,
Whitespike.
My reply was not meant for everybody, I was at work when I wrote my reply.
Were my intentions to bait and then criticize any of those who replied to my mistaken blanket response? Absolutely not. Look, it is true I have spent quite a lot of hours doing research on Mies only because I understood very little at all about the man or his Architecture and numerous projects. In fact I didn't even know who designed them or even what these chairs were named when I acquired them years ago. I have them only because I liked them very much. Do I write as poorly as you say? Perhaps. Have I ever resorted to cursing people out and characterizing them in such a demeaning way as you have to me? Never. Will I do so now, not likely. I work a very very late shift and often when I do post something here it is done very late in the evening or early morning. Sure I may not understand email etiquette and forget that some consider it yelling if a person types in capital letters. I admit to you that after I discovered what I had and who they were designed by and the possible significance I become extremely excited. Who wouldn't? Have I become a bit defensive when trying to understand and or determine the real value of these chairs? Absolutely! I will admit it, but I think if you knew and understood the low ball offers presented to me and dishonesty I experienced in the past you might be more understanding of my defensive position. Try and put yourself in my situation for a moment. I really wish I could elaborate to you in greater detail the opposition I have
faced personally in the last few years. I can only ask that you please not rush to judgement over a few poorly (as you suggested) thought out postings. It seems that I obviously offended some of you and if this is the
case, then I apologize. This was not my intention. I do take medication to slow my mind down, this is true and often in the late evening or early morning it has worn off. Believe it or not it's the truth. Do you feel better for ripping on a person with a mental disability? Do you think I care if the world knows I take medication? I am not ashamed of it, at least I can offer a valid reason for my parenoid behavior, why would you be so harsh in your comments to me when my posted reply wasn't even directed at you? The world is full of good and bad people. Life is often unfair, I can accept that and I do. People have a choice to be understanding and kind or vindictive and spiteful. Which are you "White-Spike"? I am a man of integrity and good character, and one day in the very near future my story will be told. The final outcome of these chairs may even be learned when that day of my vindication arrives. Perhaps you be able to speculate the point and meaning of my message by what I have said thus far and perhaps not. You will pobably reply in saying " I could care a less". And that's okay, but please trust me in saying I admit that I have indeed
become hyperfocused over these chairs. Probably too focused for my own good. Continued...
Second part of my message.
Perhaps your cutting reply is well deserved and meant to be. I know that if you ever met me you may reconsider your quick determination of me as an "Asshole". If not so be it. I posted my first message a year or two ago, I knew very little about mid century furniture. Since that time I have learned a great great deal, especially about Mies and Skidmore Owings and Merrill. I mean this in the most humble way, but I really have researched and recorded so much detailed information I can't wait to share it in writing to whoever else shares of this interest. I have been fortunate to have been personally contacted by past student architects of Mies while at IIT. Through only this concerted effort have I been fortunate to gather such important detailed and credible information not found even within the Ryerson Library Archives at the Art Institute of Chicago. I have solid information that supports the exact history to these only two chairs as being directly connected to Mies. The thoughts that triggered my posting were only to hopefully discover more credible information so I can add it to this wonderful and past due story but also to correct some innaccuracies. This is the truth. In doing so I also hope to ressurrect and give credit to a friend of Mies history books have unfortunately forgotten. Well there you have it, my reply and true intentions. Respectfully,
"Coolwater".
Just
a small point..
you berate people for not having seen these chairs before giving their opinions (which you asked for) but you haven't actually shown these chairs- in either this thread or in previous attempts at getting an appraisal.
EDITED *apologies to Whitespike- just read that you asked the same question *
For Coolwater- might we see pictures of the chairs ?
"Have I ever resorted to curs...
"Have I ever resorted to cursing people out and characterizing them in such a demeaning way as you have to me? Never."
I would say calling the people on this thread stupid, after they went to the trouble of giving their opinion (wether you like their opinion or not, they DID go to the effort) is demeaning.
And you have admitted to knowing very little about mid century design. But you question the integrity and knowledge of others here that have been doing this for many years.
I have taken an impressive cocktail of medication for my mental illnesses for longer than I care to think about. I never use it as an excuse to treat people with disrespect. I treat you this way because I have been a member here for close to ten years. You barging in here calling people names, questioning the members' intelligence and so forth is like barging in my home and doing the same to my guests.
How would you expect any of us to have a valuable answer for you, when you have done so much research. Especially when you have allegedly uncovered previously unknown data. How could we complete with that superior knowledge?
Bottom line is that it's worth what someone will pay. And just because you feel low-balled doesn't mean previous offers were "dishonest." People like getting good deals. Just like you. That doesn't make them bad. Besides, the highest bid you've gotten to date is currently what it is worth by your definition. I'll give you $10. Heck, I might even increase it to $20 if you'd do me the honor of using the classic paragraph form the next time you feel like rambling on.
Anyway, if you want help, fine. But I would use a different approach when asking for it. Like, perhaps treating those that you are asking with some respect. You reap what you sow. If you ask with a less than gracious attitude, then that is what you will receive in return. A VERY simple rule for humankind.
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