I wouldn't worry about a...
I wouldn't worry about a little bit of surface rust if they were mine. I have a set that has been in the house here for close to 50 years, no broken welds wires or other issues. If you will be using them inside just clean them up a little,(scotch brite or somthing similar) and enjoy them. Rust is not a cancer, it will not continue to grow and eat through your chairs. Rust needs moisture and oxygen...take away the moisture, no further rust. Ever see an old car sitting outside in the desert with a little bit of surface rust on it? That same little bit of surface will still be there in 100 years...no moisture.
I too prefer original but to each there own I guess...some people want things to look new so they repaint and "restore". If they were covered in surface rust with little to no original paint remaining I suppose I would do the same thing.
wow!
my first experience on designaddict. wow. i'm paralysed.
i've got four (extra) danish chairs in my dining room, four (extra) eames chairs in my living room.
i'm going to take a minute to think about it all.
I truly appreciate everyone's feedback and the set-to in the middle 😉
look forward to posting/reading/researching more!
j
Ahhh.....
What a beautiful cloudy day out in the DA jungle....
EH... The chairs may be well designed, but they didn't age gracefully. That's the problem. If you call that graceful, then you need to actually look at the picture... She didn't pass on these, and since she has them in her possession, she needs to to the right thing, and sell them. I mean, protect them...
Rosewood is somewhat right, but is completely wrong in telling you vintage metal is weaker than newer metal. He's 180 degrees wrong. Vintage metal is by far stronger than newer metal. The older the metal, the more pure the chemical compound, with less filler elements in it. Metal of the same gauge from 1920 will be far stronger than metal of the same gauge from 2013. It's more pure, and in turn has more tinsel strength. Everyone knows that.
I restore items for a living. It's part of my daily routine. I work with what you're dealing with all the time, and know it inside, and out. If you really want to preserve them in their original state, then go to a Hardware store, and get a bottle of Noxon. It's like Brasso, but 10x as potent. Very heavy on Ammonia. Rust hates ammonia.
Throw some on a rag, rub as much rust off as possible. The rust will start building on the rag in no time. You can also use the noxon with brass brushes at this time, over steel. Steel scratches the paint, and invites more rust. If you're gonna repaint then there's no harm in steel wire brushing the worst parts first, as they'll soon be covered. The wire brush will be good for welds, but not as good for the wire frame.
The brass bristles will give, and push right through the thin wires without a backer, and they're very difficult to run in a 360 around all the metal. A rag with noxon will work better in those areas, and much faster. I can't tell, but the legs could be good. The seats unbolt, or unthread from the base. If the bolts don't want to loosen easily, use PB Blaster to free them.
If the legs are good, clean the grime off first, then use a bottle of KIT Scratch Remover and Polisher, along with some spa towels to remove staining, and bring the original look back, without removing the paint. This would also work well on the seat after the noxon to bring original luster back, if you decide not to repaint, or just to touch up.
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If anything, all the old chips and flakes underneath would kill the resale worse then the new paint, or leaving them unpainted and rusty. Collector's want items they know had a good life. That's why some people tell you they would have passed. But since you own them, you want them to look as well cared for as possible. That's way more important in the long run to the masses, not just the few people on here..
Now, if you decide to fully repaint, but feel you don't want all the old imperfections, then have them sanblasted first instead of doing any cleaning, as it'll do it all for you. Bead blasting, and walnut blasting is fine, if someone offers that, and is the same cost or only a few bucks higher, but sandblasting will not hurt them if you don't have the other options, or the price difference is extreme. The only area where the metal could be weak enough to be damaged by sandblasting, is where rust has deteriorated to a point of collapsing under the strength, and heat of the sand. I doubt the chairs are that bad. They'll only need to lightly be hit. You're not taking off years of paint build up. Quite the opposite here. I just had a vintage table from the 60's sandblasted. It came out great.
If you feel the welds are so weak they'd break under the blast, or right now, then go push on all of them hard before you even go any further, and see if any give. Throw a towel over them, and sit in them. Bounce a little bit to see if you fall through. Push hard on the back. See how sturdy they are. If you can't push, or pull them apart, then the sand won't either for as quick as they'll go through. Sandblasting shouldn't be too high for the amount of metal being hit. After that, hang them, prime them, and paint.
If you feel you're too scared to sandblast, but still want all the paint gone relatively fast, then use a can of Kleen Strip Paint remover.
Make sure you have goggles, and thick rubber gloves. It'll eat your skin up in no time if it get's on it. You'll know if some splashed on your arm or something, because you'll start feeling a tingling sensation within just a few seconds, followed by a burning feeling, followed by you screaming for water.
Lay the seats on some cardboard and wipe it all over the chairs with a paint brush. It'll cling right to the paint. Let it set for 15 minutes or so, then use a scouring pad, wire brushes, and water to wipe the excess off. You might need to do two coats, but it should work good. Then clean, prime, and paint. If the paint is extremely stubborn, and not wanting to strip easy, then just sandblast, prime, and paint.
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After a chair has been completely cleaned, see how much paint loss there is. If you see only a few exposed spots, and want to protect them, then touch them up with small brushes, and a good enamel paint, and you're done.... for now. The painting will be good for preservation, because no one can tell you how much moisture you will have in your life, and if your home will be in the desert for the next 50 years. No one can say that. It's impossible. Read this if you believe that: http://taurangasandblasting.co.nz/Articles/rust-101-knowledge-is-your-fi...
A touch up of bad areas, is better than a full repaint, because the chairs will still be semi-original. If so, It's cheaper to buy a good rattle can enamel, shake well, spray some in a cup, and then use your brushes to do your touch up. If you have to repaint a lot, then touching it up everywhere with brushes is going to look worse than repainting the entire chair, and will be very hard to accomplish because of the thin round, never ending, constantly revolving wires.
So, if the deterioration is still extreme in spots after your initial cleaning, you want them truly protected, not just crossing your fingers for luck, and just a touch up here and there won't do, then they're gonna need to be cleaned even deeper with a steel wire brush, a scour pad, maybe a flat head screwdriver for flakes, and pitted areas (if any), then primed, then fully painted.
Rust-Mort is good, but if you're going to prime the chairs, then there's no need for it. You'll already have the rust removed from a good cleaning, and that's what primer's for. Why prime twice? Why spend the extra money? Also, you can't use Rust-Mort by itself to act as primer, and never paint over it, because it turns metal chalky black/grey, and will easily be noticed everywhere.
The best way to paint them would be with a cup gun, but only if you have one, and a compressor to run it. If not, a good enamel in a can will work. A lot of auto parts stores can mix enamel in a can for you, and that would be the best paint to use, but if not, a higher end enamel already mixed in black from an auto parts store would be the best. If not there, then a hardware store would be the next place to go.
You'll be left with most of the imperfections of it's life, yet still have it all primed, painted, and protected. Semi original, yet still enjoyable, and won't hurt the resale, regardless of what anyone here tells you. You can only hurt the resale if they were in great original condition. You're not selling to only these 30 people, and I guarantee you when it comes time to sell, if ever, they won't be in line to buy them.
There's lots of metals...
What are you referring to? These chairs aren't made of a soft metal, and they're not flat, and thin sheets. They cannot be hammered, dented, or destroyed by a quick sandblast job. I just had it done to a table with wire framing. It left in one piece, ready for re-paint.
Just a question
Phonegirl, you've struck a nerve within the community. This is one of those hot button topics that people in this community get very heated over. I'm guilty too.
But, my question is this- if you are going to repaint, why strip them at all? Can't you just use a fine steel wool to clean the chairs and remove any light rust? I'm no expert by any means, but this might be what I'd try first before spending a lot more money and time.
When you only have a hammer...
everything looks like a nail.
Chairlove, OF COURSE you are correct, and what you said makes total sense.
OGD does provide helpful and useful info on how HE over restores.
But all he knows is all he knows.
When in doubt, ASSUME that the rust is bubbling and RAMPANT, and eating the chair up as we speak!
(I believe that is called "black and white" thinking)
Brass wool
or a brass brush, rags, and noxon would be better than steel wool. Steel wool is not the worst thing to use, but it's not better than brass wool. It will leave tiny scratches, and cause more rust over time. Steel wool will rust on it's own, under the tiniest amounts of moisture which will cause further damage if used later. It would be great on a stainless steel sink, but not the best for painted chairs where preservation, and longevity is the number one concern. Brass wool over steel wool all day.
If you posted
this message on a forum where people actually get dirty for a living around the elements, you'd be laughed out of there... Your extreme lack of common sense really is showing right now, and its not very becoming.
"Chairlove, OF COURSE you are correct, and what you said makes total sense."
To the restoration toddler like you I'm sure it does.
"OGD does provide helpful and useful info on how HE over restores.
But all he knows is all he knows."
To be nice, you're so clueless I can't help but laugh. You really get me cracking up sometimes. I'm still laughing. All he knows, is all he knows...? Wuh oh... Look out... Who let Mr. Witty grab the mic...
When in doubt, ASSUME that the rust is bubbling and RAMPANT, and eating the chair up as we speak!
(I believe that is called "black and white" thinking)
I believe that's called rust. The funny part here is that in your belittling, you actually just spoke the truth about rust, and didn't even know it. That's how clueless you actually are. And that's exactly what it's doing, or there'd be no rust on them.. Everyone knows it. C'mon now. Get over here in the grey area.. The water's good, and the view's great....
your view of the world...
..must be something special.
A paranoid rust-infested INFERNO around every turn! The HORROR.
But seriously OGD, you DO offer much in the way of useful and practical and knowledgable information in your posts above. And I don't mean to diminish that very valuable contribution.
But really, how about a little PROPORTION???
No big deal... a little rust can be steel wooled as easily as brass wooled, and the amount of difference it will make is really rather piddling in the long run. All the "what ifs" -- ("nobody knows where you might live!") are pretty clearly an excuse so you can further demonstrate how obsessive you are about cleaning. AND rant on and on for another few pages in the process.
The idea of proportion and moderation has left the building.
I remember a plumber told me something once. He said he wouldn't live in one of the nicest cities in America -- because of the tree roots invading the pipes. (Like every 7 years hed have to call a plumber, so that was the only way he could view the area.
You gotta get your rust goggles off. There are other things to enjoy in life than obsessive compulsive cleaning.
The thing is EH
that you're making it seem as if I'm turning the world into a rust inferno. I'm talking about these specific chairs, and the lady who's dealing with them.
My whole reply to her was based off "if" they were beyond just cleaning. "If". And then it got turned into a personal smudge fest against me, to show that I know nothing again, and you guys know it all. Like always. You come in and cherry pick the parts that don't agree with you, instead of reading the message as a whole, and then turn it into your own personal bashing agenda, Like always.
These specific chairs were neglected during their life. Any fool with eyes can see it. Just because she bought something she loves, doesn't mean she needs to be stuck with them in that state forever, when they're truly in need of a facelift. There's a difference between rust stains, and real rust. You can't wipe away real rust. At what point does rust have to be too bad to clean for you.
I think I'd take the one on the left, as would 98% of the rest of the world's population. There's a reason why cars on the right don't get rolled through Barrett Jackson. Even if that metal on the right is solid as a rock, it will still get all over your clothes, and it's grimy, and dirty, and only builds with time. Rust has to almost enter a state of petrification to even stop producing the dust. And takes decades to do. And it's still not 100%.
...
Those photos certainly prove your point.
I thought I was simply noting the lack of proportion in your obsessive approach to the eradication of evil rust, but those photos clearly present a very balanced argument that has everything to do with the condition of phonegirl's wire chairs.
Im sorry that me having a different view of the importance of rust than you do feels like an attack on your family or something.
Remember my first post? It basically said "a little rust is no big deal". "Get a vintage cover and enjoy the chairs..."
Then YOU went on a rant about clean white pants.
I honestly did not set out to smudge you.
Really.
Ok....
Well sorry for arguing with you. You can just really get me wound up sometimes. But the "all I know is all I know" had me laughing so hard, I wished we were friends, so you could have seen me. I'm laughing now just writing it..
The thing is she's a girl that just bought some chairs she was stoked about, was already trying to match cushions, and probably wanted them to be nice. That's what I read from her tone.
I don't know what kind of girls you hang out with, but most of them I know don't like rust. They look nice. They wear nice clothes. Their friends dress nice. They love white. They're not seeing the rust. Just the prettiness of the chairs. Until it gets all over a nice white dress or something, then they're pissed.
When I mentioned the white pants, it struck a cord with her, and she let us all know right there that rust was not her friend, and didn't want it on her clothes. So in this situation I don't think my advice was that far out of line.
If there was a little staining only, I would have said to just clean them, but they already look kinda rough from a low resolution, cloudy picture. I can only imagine right there in front of your eyes. And she wants to keep them for generations to come with as little cleaning effort needed as possible.
I didn't mean to take away from the originality of the pieces. I know that's the most important thing, but sometimes it's ok to take away a little of the originality for the greater good of longevity.
It's not the chairs fault, and it's not her fault. It's just something that needs to be done sometimes. And it's ok. We can't save them all by just wiping them down. The next person might want to roll around naked in the chairs just like they are. Maybe even snort the rust. Others may not.
There's a reason those 6 coca cola machine brought $70,000. They would have brought $2,000 in the condition of her chairs. It says it's ok to restore things sometimes. We can't tell every person to only buy things that need no restoration, or to never clean anything to keep it original. If a few wires were broken, would you tell her to not re-weld them?
At what point does a person keep things so original that they slowly let them fall apart before their very eyes, before saving them from starvation?
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