Modern-woodworks is
Im all for buying the licensed manufacturer if possible. I make exceptions for Modernica because of their history with Herman Miller - but I've seen some of the Modern Woodwork stuff and its just gross. He screws the proportions ALL up, changes the materials and finishes and the end result is disastrous. It's like comparing a McMansion with an actual Colonial style house.
A photo of a vintage piece
In the vintage you can see the more elegant proportioning of the depth of the shelves, and the ratio of the units in the configuration. You can also see the original materials - birch ply doors (not walnut) dimpled for strength, and zinc (not black) hardware.
Photo from Architonic
LuciferSum
I am surprised to hear you be so critical of Modern Woodwork but since i have been reading your threads for the last year i respect your opion i not always agree with you but i think you know what you are talking about
I called the guy who owns the company that makes the ESU pieces he is in Kener La and makes architectural items , desk, work stations, and this is something they wipped up
I not kowing much about ESU though i have seen the Herman miller at the show room i thought his stuff was pretty good looking from the website for 1500 you can have a nice shelf but i am glad you have seen his stuff that makes a good recommendation,
If i was in the market for one i would still buy the Herman miller, at least i get a discount from them this guy gives no discount to the trade on either his shelfs or effiel tower bases, something we buy a lot of for our shell chairs,
That picture that LuciferSum ...
That picture that LuciferSum posted of the Modern Woodworks ESU is from Ebay, incidentally -- curernt bid $50. So he hasn't necessarily seen them in person (not that he was claiming too either) -- when you criticized the finish, LuciferSum, were you referring to the fact that the dimpled doors were in walnut instead of birch or were you criticizing the smoothness of the polyurethane topcoat? If it's the latter, well I can't counter you there, but if it's the former, just know that walnut dimpled doors are an option offered on his site (along with the birch dimpled doors). The black supports are also an option (as are zinc plated supports). In fact, I suspect that the ESU you attached to your post was an entirely customized piece (they had a section on the website for custom ESUs for people who needed them for something that a regular a ESU wouldn't accomodate (like a TV). So I'd imagine that the dimensions of this ESU (which you criticized) were specified by the consumer...so don't count Modern Woodworks out just yet.
Thats actually kind of the point I was making
I stumbled across the picture on ebay about 2 hours before I came across the thread here.
The point that I was making is: if you like the ESU you should go for one that is as close to the originals in specs - therefore on thats made by Herman Miller, or Modernica.
I was specifically referring to ModernWoodworks willingness to alter the proportions. This is one of the strongest arguments against knock-offs: that they corrupt the design/proportions/materiality that the designer originally intended.
LuciferSum
I was specifically referring to ModernWoodworks willingness to alter the proportions. This is one of the strongest arguments against knock-offs: that they corrupt the design/proportions/materiality that the designer originally intended.
Now you are talking crazy talk just when i said something nice about you, DAMN it......
somepeople might want to alter the piece cause of new Flat Panel TVs and want them bigger I see no big deal about this at all and surely no deed to get on a soap box ,
When Charles was around 50 years ago makeing this cabinet sheld it was cheap products, from a hardware store, they could barely think about portable tvs,
for g-d sake cut the guy some slack
he is just trying to accomodate the customer,
He is not trying to reinvent the wheel, or desigrate The Eames Graves.....
I will buy from Herman Miller who i talked to for another design addict fan and they told me they can make the ESU any configuration that you want you just tell them what you need and how you want it,
What do you think of that!!!!!!!
LRF, you're so right
It's funny that Eames created the ESU group specially to be a cool, mod, low-priced alternative collection of storage units.
The original ESU-400 have become extremely expensive because they simply have not held up over time. The sliding door material degrades over time, etc. Herman Miller discontinued them in the (I think) late 1950's.
After a period of time, Herman Miller REISSUED them and now they compete with the quality and not-so-good quality knockoffs.
However...unless you're living with 1953 electronics, there's a good, valid arguement for alterations in the ESU systems to accomidate the LCD Flat Screen TV's and other modern electronics.
My opinion is if you're looking for an antique, original look, go for the Herman Miller (and start saving your big bucks for it, too.)
If you want to use the unit with your modern stuff, consider customizing it through the guy in Louisiana.
Believe me, Charles and Ray were such forward thinking people that if they were alive today, they'd be working with Herman Miller to update the ESU systems to accomidate modern usage. electronic equipment.
Not a valid argument at all!
When I worked in an art gallery we joked that you bought a couch to match your new Rothko painting, not a Rothko that matches your couch. Point being that if your electronics are too big to fit in an ESU you buy a different television - or put it somewhere else.
Charles Eames wasnt just 'some guy' picking parts off of a shelf. His wife wasn't a pretty little woman who liked to arrange flowers. They were both professional and very qualified designers. Would LRF or Barry or the guy from Modernwoodowks say that they are better designers than the Eames?
When the Eames put pieces together they did so with care and with rational order - just like their architecture and their exhibitions and the rest of their furniture. The ESU's, while configurable to client specific needs, were built on a system of proportions and measurements, similar to LeCorbusier's 'Modulor' system. You can configure as many of these modules together and still have a harmonious whole. But when you change the proportions and measurements of the modules you destroy the harmony of the full design. This is what people keep missing here!
Putting dimpled doors and a cross-brace on a piece doesnt mean it's an Eames design. Those are only the surface treatments of what is essentially a fixed architectural formula.
The ESU's have always been predicated on a grid system that is inherently symmetrical in structure. The basic module is composed of a lower shelf that is 1:1.5 ratio with the depth/height of the sides. The second shelf is a 1:2 propotion to the height of the sides. This module is repeated vertically or latterally - but in even numbers. It is the placement of the colored panels and drawer systems that offer the customisation and organic quality of the pieces.
In the photo above, Modernwoodworks has altered the proportions of the modules as well as the whole. The bottom and second shelves are the same height, while the top shelf is slightly shorter: a totally different heirarchy than in the ESUs . In addition he has slapped a third door onto the center - totally throwing off the symmetry of the piece. He has also increased the depth from 16" to 24" which throws off any possible ratio to the front of the cabinets.
Whether the Eames would have updated the ESUs is a moot question. They're not here, and the people that ARE modifying their designs aren't qualified to be doing so.
Speaking of not being a valid argument
I'm not in favor in changing original designs or buying knockoffs, but I could NOT find a good vintage desk to house my computer and the pull out keyboard I felt I needed.
I would've been just fine with Herman Miller ALTERING the ESU desk accomedate a pull out keyboard drawer.
Instead, I bought a blue Dot Paperclip desk.
I do not have any ESU, but I would invest in a piece of furniture that was designed by revolutionary people that I could not use to house the things I want it for.
As stated earlier, if the Eames' were alive, they'd offer modified version to accomedate modern electronics...I'm sure of that.
no point getting into a huff over the issue, tho.
Well, I own an ESU 400 built...
Well, I own an ESU 400 built by Modern Woodworks, and I've always felt satisfied with my investment. I use it for work, mostly -- too keep camera equipment out of sight, etc. In other words, it's not a centerpiece, but it could well be. It's that handsome. It's a solidly and lovingly constructed piece of utilitarian furniture, utilizing quality veneers, US made hardware, hard birch ply, etc. No fancy joinery or chrome, but I think that's rare on even the original versions. In my opinion, if there was ever a piece of furniture that was meant to be affordable, the ESU series is it. It's such a basic concept and construction -- minus a few compositional whims/flourishes that keep it from being completely spartan -- that I find it ludicrous to charge what Herman Miller currently charge. My two cents.
Knock offs -- I think it...
Knock offs -- I think it depends. There is nuance to this undying quandary. What do you do when there's only a scant few examples left in the world and nobody's doing licensed versions? For example, I think Daniel Donnelly's Thin Edge reproductions are stellar, and they are anything but junk. I actually prefer the idea of buying his pieces to the originals, if no other reason that the epic in frustration and disappointment that trying to find, say, a bedroom set that actually matched in color or hue.
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