In the Letters section of this month's Dwell (page 42, June 2008): Surely you know that each time you run an ad promoting fake Eames plastic chairs, you erode your own credibility. Those knockoffs have nothing to do with the Eames Office, run by the Eames family and which, at Charles and Ray's request, ensures that Eames designs are made the way they should be. The only original equipment which might matter is the molds, which Modernica does not have (despite their implications). But most important is something many of your readers may not know: By the end of her life, Ray Eames was convinced of the environmental damage caused by fiberglass in landfills. It was this factor that lead us (and Herman Miller and Vitra, who make our authentic Eames chairs) to stop using fiberglass and use the recyclable plastic we use today. It is not surprising, given their philosophy and films like Powers of Ten, that Charles and Ray were ahead of the game on environmental issues. It is surprising that in the midst of a green initiative, Dwell doesn't care about Ray Eames's vision of sustainability. Your readers deserve better. Eames Demetrios Director, Eames Office http://www.dwell.com/
Dwell did not write a response
as they sometimes do, they just published it as-is, I assume for the readership to form their own opinions.
As many of you know, I am not a fan of repros/knock-offs, and learning that Modernica does not actually have the molds is enlightening. But for Dwell to stop running the big color 2 page Modernica ads, as well as the ads from Modernica's dealers, would create a significant loss of revenue for a magazine that I feel has done a great service to educate its readers on the legacies of many great designers, Eames included. They have also been a green-oriented magazine from the beginning.
Also, is this a polite request for something the magazine should consider? Judging by the tone, I don't think so.
I also wonder: Is charging 2K for a child's plywood elephant also consistent with the Eames's vision?
http://hivemodern.com/products/?view=sub_product&sid=2077
the_beloved i agree ...
the_beloved i agree with your statement 100 percent
the guy complains about the modernica chairs but he should take a look at the big rip off of the 2000 dollar elephant,
I think poor Eames is out of Touch, as far as Herman miller making 100,000 chairs for a convention center or hospital out of fiberglass maybe Ray might have had a point that fiberglass could be hard on the environment. but only when discarded and in a landfield.
But low production like Modernica is making for the person who wants to own a piece of history and can't find a clean shell. with a decent color,
I personally find nothing the matter with this at all . Yes it is pure fiberglass with great fibers in all.
So folks enjoy them, no matter who makes them. and dont worry about them ending up in a landfield for a very long time.
I suspect that...
Mr. Eames Demetrios ignores that our knowledge on the environmental impact of differents materials has evolved since the death of his grand father. Charles and Ray Eames have been part of the many waves of environmentally responsable designers but they did not know what we know now.
The environmental load of glassfiber re-enforced polyester is 362 mPt/Kgr. whereas Polypropelene is only slightly lower at 305 mPt/Kgr. Which is quite a distance away from plywood...as in elephants... with 188,000 mPt/ sq. meter
I wonder exact what is the deal at Modernica
since they have the Bubble lamps legally, and no one at Herman Miller or Knoll have stopped them from making either the Fibreglass shells chairs or the Grasshopper chair and "case study" Florence Knoll designs.
I am primarily a big fan of buying originals - indeed I bought a new Eames square work table from Hive Modern two years ago - but I'm turned off at the price of the Eames Sofa, as well as the silliness over how ridiculously expensive Vitra hawked the limited edition elephant.
And,please, Eames Demetrios, don't call me Shirley!
I rented all the Eames ...
I rented all the Eames movies from the mid 60s not to long ago, I am sorry to say with profound respect i did not think they were that wonderful, I know , Eames Demetrios thinks that they are award winning Oscar material , but i just did not think that way,
I think it is great that the grandson enjoys keeping the dream alive of Charles and Ray, but face it, they had there day and were wonderful,creative,people,
I fault no one especially Moderica which i have been critical of for a lot of there products, but give them a break , they at least try to get there reproductions as close as possible and you really don't see thousands of Chinese companies knocking off the shell chairs, like corbos, or Barcelona's,
If they found one little piece of machinery from the Originals good for them , as they were contracted out to 4 or 5 factories in the 40 years that they were made for Herman Miller, so I am sure they got just a little piece of the originals or they would not advertise it , it would be what we here in the U.S. call Fraud.
For some reason Eames Demetrios never wins points with this crowd,
I think at the end of the day he enjoys the Eames name as that is his first name and is reminded every day of his life that he is a Eames,
I think it is great that he likes to preserve the folks reputation but hell he is not against making a buck any way he can off of poor old Charles and Ray, let them R.I.P. for gods sake,
If he's convinced that Modernica's
fiberglass (or is it fibreglass?) 'Eames' chairs are not 100% legitimate, than the Eames foundation should slap a lawsuit on 'em.
I'd much rather see the Eames Foundation work with Vitra to get their prices on their liscenced Eames products down. After all, it's been written time and time again that both Charles and Ray were especially concerned about designing beautiful furniture for people to purchase economically.
Vitra treats every one of the products they produce as if they are Tiffany in disguise.
That's one reason why good people on a budget in Europe are trying to buy Herman Miller products at U.S. prices and get them shipped to Europe.
I'll repeat what many here ...
I'll repeat what many here have said.
Buy vintage. Nothing else compares.
From a possible TV console, to an interesting chair...or a desk.
In the long run, Having gone through similar decisions personally,
my originals are much more interesting than any reproduction.
Who cares if they may not have a fancy pedigree.
Some great pieces often are well built and reflect a personality
well above some design magazines idea of 'gotta have it'.
vintage is done, exists, and often in your local thrift shop.
enjoy the hunt.
Dear WoofWoof
Sorry for the delay. I can assure you retirement does not make the days longer on the contrary....
The question about environmental impact is a good but difficult one and I fear I would not do the methodology justice if I try to explain it within the short context of this forum. So allow me to give you the link to a pdf document that is more explicit and has been put together by the very people that developed the system.
Please open the Eco-indicator 99 pdf file
One comment about the control of moulds at subcontractors.
Considering that the Eames shell production was initiated many years before the introduction of so called pre-pregs Pre-pregs are pre mixed polyester and glass fibre that includes all the components but also so retarding chemicals that give the mixture a reasonable shelf time. Heat and pressure during the production play the role of catalyst. These pre-pregs require steel or at least a good quality aluminium mould and will produce a shell every two-three minutes. At the time H.M. had the Eames shells made the available technology was the so called wet method which requires les expensive moulds (most often in glass fibre re-enforced polyester) but because of the slow process (the shell stays in the mould for at least an hour) they needed quite a number of moulds. I find it very difficult to believe that all these moulds?and we are talking about hundreds? are still in well controlled locations. I have doubts about that?
One other consideration that the environmental one is that an injection moulded shell of this size costs around U.S.$ 2,50-2,75 to produce (including the material) whereas a pre-preg produced shell in glass fibre and polyester is closer to U.S.$ 12,50-13,50. Prices are based on U.S. production conditions not of-shore?.
http://www.pre.nl/eco-indicator99/ei99-reports.htm
Eames Demitrios' Letter to Dwell smacks of self-indulgence
I read it with disgust and thought of all those chairs in my garage that I was saving from the landfill that his grandparents made with far more good faith than he shows in the suppossed protection of his grandparents legacy.
Attached is an article that is a bit off-topic, but somehow I think it's relavent to this discussion. Reduce, reuse,recycle and think before you buy. Simple concepts, yet somehow folks often miss the point. Read on...
http://www.ptvermont.org/rypkema.htm
It should be
said that, as there is no copyright on the designs themselves, the only control the Eames family or foundation has on other makers is use of the name Eames (pronounced EEmes, not Ames, kids !).
We have Koen's many past messages on that subject to thank for the information -- which nevertheless seems to slip through the cracks, perhaps because it is counter-intuitive and/or because of words like young Eames's above. . .
Of course, present-day makers (reproducers, copiers) of classic designs needn't use the original names, since the visual information embodied in the objects themselves is a more than adequate communication of their significance: everybody (with any interest in the subject) instantly recognizes a Barcelona Chair, a Noguchi Coffee Table or a Marshmallow Sofa. . .though they may not notice irregularities of shape or an incorrect material.
Price, they notice ! Oh yes. . .
design for everybody
I didn't like reading that letter either. There is often a defensive stance from Eames. I don't think they need to protect themselves from the likes of Modernica. Everyone knows who Charles and Ray are. Everyone appreciates it. Everyone loves it. Fact is the shell chair the Eames Office is behind is not desirable to many of us. I get it, Charles and Ray would have made it in plain ol' plastic these days. But they didn't. They aren't here anymore (God bless their wonderful souls). People interested in design are often more interested in the leaps they DID make for design than anything else. When I buy, I buy vintage anyway. That's more eco-friendly than buying their plastic chair!
If Eames himself reads this - please know I mean no disrespect. I just don't think Charles and Ray would go on writing bitchy self promoting letters to people.
Lastly - I totally get making plastic chairs for mass use. I doubt anyone buying one to four of them for home use is going to dump them in a landfill! Maybe the plastic ones should be used for contract purchases only. The rest of us want the real deal. I'm sorry, but if someone buys new, the Modernica one reminds us of Charles and Ray more. I just can't buy a damn plastic chair.
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