There seems an air of desperation about this place of late, it's turning into the internet equivalent of a low budget daytime TV programme ......
'how much is it worth'..'how much can I get for it'..'how much has the value gone up'..etc.tc.
Can we just get back to appreciating and discussing good design without it always being about valuation ?
or is it just symptomatic of the world economy in
meltdown ?
Robert, methinks you're being a bit too dramatic...
Every collectibles/art site will have posts which are about value/cost of a given item.Curiosity of value is piqued on any interesting find,it's human nature.That's what makes Antiques Road Show and this board so exciting.We're not all selling our stuff just yet,but we do like to know what an item may be worth just in case that "rainy day" is around the corner,or in case we wish to upgrade our collections.I do not think us design addicts are money driven,but I think there is a site for that; GordonGekko.com
Wow! I have been contemplating putting up the very same post!
I too have thought of late that there have been an awful lot of posts from people who seem to parachute in, ask a whole lot of questions regarding "What's it Worth?" and then we never hear from them again, unless a few months later, it's to ask again regarding a recent acquisition, What's it Worth?
I also thought that it might have been a function of the economy. I understand the desire to know what a thing is worth, but ultimately it's worth whatever you paid for it if you love it, and it is concurrently worth in the marketplace, whatever someone else is willing to pay for it, and that can vary from state to state and country to country.
Symptomatic
If you ask me its symptomatic of something much larger than a slower economy. It's a result of a shifting focus away from real-life value and towards monetary value. Its not just relevant to furniture - you see and hear it all over: "I just saved ..., this only cost..., this is worth..."
Perhaps I'm particularly annoyed by it because my current roommate regards with utter astonishment any piece of furniture I bring home thats valued at more than $50. He's so consumed by money that he ignores value. The Risom chair he's sitting on normally costs $700. But to me the value is having a solid chair to sit in for the next decade or so.
I, too, have noticed a lot of shifting away from the theoretical discussions of design, its purpose, its history, and its future. It's vaguely annoying, but all things must evolve. Perhaps this well trend DA away from a discussion forum and into a free-appraisal service. Personally I'm less bothered by people who ask "what is this piece of furniture and where did it come from" than I am by people who ask "how much is this piece of furniture worth?".
ANd pS Robert
Is your "low budget, daytime television" comment is referencing Antiques Roadshow? A friend works at WGBH and let me tell you - Antiques Roadshow is the highest rated show on any given day, week, & month! (maybe we SHOULD turn this into an appraisal engine - make some dough at it!"
No
I'm fully aware that Antiques Roadshow is not small budget or, here in the UK at least, daytime.
Incidentally, we have a 20C Roadshow here in the UK, do you in the US ?
What we also have is a string of daytime programmes dedicated to the value, and little else, of people's 'stuff'..those are the programmes I was referring to.
I'm sure they're very popular, but I personally feel that format isn't really right for here.
I'd rather discuss the design merits of an object than any possible profit..
I'm with Tynellbuyer,
in not replying to those threads, but I understand paulanna's frustration because the only way to know if a thread is of sustenance, is to open it up.
I have no problems with aiding in ID'ing pieces, as I love discovering new pieces, and it can lead to an education on a the designer's oeuvre.
However, when it is followed by "how much can I make off it" type inquiries, well.... that's a different story.
It seems to me that it has...
It seems to me that it has been this way for awhile, and I imagine it runs a bit in cycles. On the bright side, the site does not seem as vile or ugly as it was getting a year or so ago, which I suppose is a tribute to the moderators and to the level of quality participation to be found here.
And yet clearly there is evidence of the transitory concerns of the day, which are - I'm afraid - approaching an epidemic.
What's that great television commercial now playing where the guy is bidding on a painting or something, and, immediately after winning it, he raises his hand and says very emphatically to the auctioneer ... I'd like to sell it now.
Robert 1960...
Obviously became the spokesperson for some of us. I have to admit to that I stayed away from the forum because of the same reasons, and as was pointed out, endless you open the thread you do not know what you are in for. As Paulanna pointed out more clearly than I ever could, you wonder where the traditional sources of information like books have gone. I have to admit that I never collected anything myself, other than stamps in case I would meet someone that collects stamps or business cards until I met a small girl on the plane between Chicago and Los Angeles. She asked everybody for a business card, so I send the 400 or so I happened to have kept. I also doubled a mug collection of someone that started off with asking for a sample of one of the Dunkin'Donuts mugs I designed. But whatever I have is what we have used for many years. The A. Road show and to some extend this forum gives the impression that everything is collectable, and to some extend everything is, but the attentive viewer of the A.road show has heard many experts saying that a particular item has become very collectable in the last couple of years. Mid century design, especially furniture textiles and lighting has not always been popular and the recent revival and still growing interest might well one day start the inevitable decline that seems typical for every human interest. So, to see it as an investment or an object of speculation requires a very attentive eye on when one can still buy low and sell high. The only really valid reason is to buy it because it is beautiful?at least in the eyes of the beholder. Again, I do not know, and because of that I fail to understand what motivates collection, but mid-century design is well documented, this is recent history, so as Paulanna points out one can just read up on it and know whatever there is to know to build a nice collection?.of books.
I know books are more and more photo albums?and yes, the internet takes over many functions, including some of the functions books used to fulfill. I was reminded of those changes yesterday looking at the closing ceremony of the summer Olympics. The original Olympic flag with the five coloured rings was born in Antwerp in the 1920 Olympics, Antwerp being my place of birth I always felt some connection even when that particular flag became a useless collector?s item after the Seoul Olympics. Anyway, looking at the closing ceremony and trying to detect what was photo shopped and what was real, I realized we had come full circle within my lifetime. The first ones I remember were the Helsinki Olympics of 1952.
By lack of T shirts with our hero, we all called ourselves Emil Zatopek who won 5000, 10000 and the marathon in the same Olympics. The east Germans had not started to enter genetically modified humans into the competition, security was limited to giving Helsinki police a day off so that they could go to the games, It was the first Olympics for the Russians.
cont.
Para Olympics did not exist so Lise Hartel of Denmark, paralyzed from the knees down competed with the men (a first) in equestrian dressage and won silver?but non of this could be seen until the official movie was finished and out in the theatres. In other words reality only came to live weeks after the games were over. Now we see it instantly but we have to wonder if it is all real.
Maybe we have to accept, even embrace the fact that for some kind of information, books are obsolete and those who are growing up with the internet expect to find information just by asking on the most appropriate forum they can find. We soon might have to rewrite René Descartes: Je pense donc je suis / I think, so I am into: I can be googled so I am.
The first Olympics I...
The first Olympics I remember were Mexico City, 1968, which would have been within the first year or two after my father bought our first color TV.
So many fine points Koen, and a wonderful post which has left me thinking even more about time and the crush of technology.
As one who is replete with the feeling that we are all (even in this modern world of instant messaging) still life-long learners, books I hope - as long as wonder exists - will never be obsolete.
But they are certainly for most folks, without a doubt, currently on the back burner.
Hudson
Never fear - I don't imagine that books made their way through 2 millenia of development to become additions to scrap heaps. However, they, like everything that comes in contact with the internet, will change. In fact, I can think of no other means of storing and communicating data more radical than books - besides the internet.
One wonders what gets lost. As oral traditions became fixed in paper and parchement there variations, permutations, and personal flourishes grew smaller. As books become scanned and searchable will we lose all but the most popular (googled) phrases? I'm still astonished when I read through books and find beautiful gems of knowledge popping up in more obscure passages.
And yet, without the internet we wouldn't have any place to come and kvetch about how its ruining our past 😀 Ahhh... irony.
5 Rings
Enjoyable and thought provoking post Koen...
Olympic high points for me will always be Calgary '88...because I was there. Nearly froze my toes off at the opening ceremonies...literally!
ID post can yield interesting artifacts...Valuations should be omitted, personally I think it's poor form. Once one has an ID, it isn't hard to badger about for value on ones own. I say posters keep them to a limit or face reprimands (sort of whats happening now).
Repeated ID post also bad form. Sharing a find is a nice gesture...however, sometimes I'm unsure of intent..if it's braggadocio, laziness or what?
Everyone here has enjoyed the wellspring of knowledge provided by all members of this exceptionally fine forum. I too appreciate post with considerable depth, and contribute when I can. If things get too crowded with superfiscal inquiries......start a more engaging thread? I would like to see more contributions by older and more experienced DA'ers... Perhaps it's a case of, "been there done that?" I'm still a relative newbie, perhaps my voice is too outspoken....
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