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DIY Tension Pole Shelving Question  

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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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01/04/2011 7:53 am  

As far as Tension Pole Shelving Systems go, when the verticals are made of wood how wide and thick are the supports? I'm looking at buying 8' lengths of Walnut to make a shelving unit. I'm looking at 1"(thick)x1.5"(wide) for the verticals.


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vintagenc
(@vintagenctriad-rr-com)
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01/04/2011 12:00 pm  

shelves
how are you attaching the shelves to the vert walnut?
1" x 1.5" seems alittle thin, i'd think youd get some wobble. I think it really depends on how you attach to the shelves. If the shelving will be permenantly attached to the vertical I think you might be ok


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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01/04/2011 5:23 pm  

I have a cabinet that was fro...
I have a cabinet that was from a 60's tension pole unit. I was going to use it as the main side to side rigid support seeing as it will be attached using screws. It will be mounted about 16"-18" from the floor. There will be four verticals, two on each side. I haven't decided how I'm going to attach the shelves as of yet. There are a few options for that. I'm more than likely going to use some sort of screws or bolts for rigidity sake. I just don't want the supports to seem too cumbersome.


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matty
(@true_blue_weaveryahoo-com)
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01/04/2011 6:00 pm  

depends....
on so many factors...center of gravity/mounting point/depth of actual shelves, intended use i.e. storing what and at what weight etc...i think 2x2 or even 1.5x1.5 would be feasible, it would provide you with enough "meat" that you could slot/drill to a depth for hangers/bolts and still have a sound beam, less prone to warpage/failure. and as always, the simplest design may be the best design...once you reach a design you may feel would suffice, consider how you may pare down, over-design is as bad as poorly designed....what do intend to use to provide the tension??


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SDR
 SDR
(@sdr)
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02/04/2011 3:24 am  

Let's back up
for a moment. By tension pole do you mean a pole that goes from floor to ceiling, and by means of rubber-ended screw hardware is held in place between floor and ceiling ?


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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02/04/2011 3:43 am  

I've been wondering about tha...
I've been wondering about that myself Matty. What would you recommend for the tension? I thought about just cutting the verticals to length and lag bolting them into the ceiling with a shimmed bottom with trim pieces covering the shimmed area. I know that would make it more like a permanent unit, but it would easily be able to be removed. I also thought of trying to find an adjustable foot that can screw in and out to apply tension, but I'm not sure that would look very nice...all the ones I've found are plastic. What was used in the original tension pole units?
I think the 2"x2" would work alright for the verticals without being too bulky. I got a cheap 8'x2"x2" pine length to do some testing. The 2"x2" does make for more body to drill shelf holes out without compromising the strength of the wood too much. One idea I had for the shelves would work better with the 2"x2"...to cut slight notches out for the shelves to slide into making for a more rigidity. That would lead to permanent shelf placement unless I cut notches all the way up.
A lot to think about and the ideas keep expanding the more I do. I've been sketching it out, but I'm not an architect and this is my first attempt at making something like this. I'm open to all ideas, well the good ones anyway.


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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02/04/2011 3:50 am  

I'm thinking female threaded...
I'm thinking female threaded receptacles mounted in the ceiling and male lag bolts screwed into the tops of the poles would be solid and then by use of some rubber footed screw tensioner at the bottom to tighten. Does that sound about right or does anyone see a fault in that?


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william-holden-...
(@william-holden)
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02/04/2011 4:41 am  

I don't think I've ever seen a wood tension-held shelving system, offhand
wall-mounted, yes... tension-mounted, no.
Sounds like a very ambitious first project. I suggest you not only "sketch" this out but make a detailed technical drawing, complete with precise measurements. THEN present your diagram to somebody who can offer advice as to whether it'll work.


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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02/04/2011 5:22 am  

I've built VW engines from th...
I've built VW engines from the ground up, rebuilt tube amplifiers and spend my days working on housing renovations. I'm pretty sure once I figure out the pieces in this puzzle I'll get them together. Half the fun is finding out how to do it along the way.
The more I think about it tension pole might've been the wrong term to use. I think that would be possible though once the right pieces are found.


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tktoo
(@tktoo)
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02/04/2011 7:30 am  

FYI on DIY
Tension vs. compression
http://www.poleshelving.com/


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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02/04/2011 7:54 am  

I was looking at that site...
I was looking at that site last night. Thanks though. Hadn't had the chance to read to far into it.


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SDR
 SDR
(@sdr)
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02/04/2011 8:16 am  

Yes. I imagine
"compression" comes closer to the intended meaning. But perhaps neither tension nor compression needs to come into the equation. . .
Let's look at the forces expected to be put upon the proposed construction, then study the possible site conditions to be dealt with.
For the spring-loaded type of compression pole to carry any weight, especially eccentric weight that wants to move the pole out of line at the ceiling, the ceiling and the floor would both have to be equally solid. In fact, the typical ceiling construction in the US would be sheetrock on wood joists spaced 12 to 16 inches on center. Between the joists, the space immediately beyond the sheetrock is . . . air. So, to fasten anything rigidly, one would be confined to the joists -- which would determine the locations where one could fasten the top of the pole.
At the floor, even eccentric loads -- a cantilevered shelf loaded with books, say -- would be asserting little sideways load on the pole, relative to the weight applied directly downward by gravity. A textured rubber foot would provide ample stability. At the ceiling, one could drill a 1/4" hole neatly through the sheetrock, and insert a steel rod or even a wood dowel into the top of the pole so that it penetrated the sheetrock by an inch or so. This would be ample to resist the sideways loading at the top of the pole. As the floor takes all the weight of the pole + the shelves and their contents, there is no vertical stress on this pin connection at all -- and the construct accommodates any minor depression of the floor under the live load associated with adding and subtracting books from the shelves. The sideways loading at the pin is only a small fraction in foot-pounds of the load produced via gravity at the floor -- so the sheetrock is easily able to resist the pressure of the pin against the sides of its hole.
I propose that this is the neatest, simplest, easiest to construct solution to the problem. If the pole is to be moved or removed in the future, the hole in the ceiling is easily patched with spackle.
Just because no one does it this way now (as far as I have heard) isn't reason to ignore the possibility once it is presented . . . it seems to me. I have at present an overhead shelf at the back of a store, in a sheetrocked hallway, supported at one side by such pins -- which are located in one wall, taking half the weight of a storage shelf ! The pins I propose here would be taking far less of a load.


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flyingpatricio
(@flyingpatricio2005yahoo-com)
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02/04/2011 5:50 pm  

SDR, your idea is along the...
SDR, your idea is along the ways I was thinking. We live in a 70 year old house, so we have plaster and lathe, so the ceiling joining will be even more secure than with drywall. We also have 3/4" oak floors with some pretty heavy duty joists below, so I'm thinking there won't be any sag there, especially with the light load I'm expecting.
This is the load the unit will have.
1. LP's in the LP storage at the bottom of the unit.
2. Turntable on top of the LP storage box.
3. Sony 3AXES CD Player on the 1st shelf. 10 lbs.?
4. Sansui receiver Seven on 2nd shelf. 47 lbs.
5. Any additional shelves will be for decorative items, nothing with much weight. I'm thinking four total shelves.


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SDR
 SDR
(@sdr)
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02/04/2011 9:28 pm  

Right.
I would think that the suggested program would work in your case. I don't know of a way to locate individual pieces of lath in a ceiling like yours, other than drilling very small exploratory holes and examining the drill bit for evidence of wood. But the pin would potentially be soundly located even if the hole hits only plaster.
The top of the pole can be made flush with the ceiling to hide the hole -- or held down a bit to show the pin and express the method of connection. The hole in the plaster could be caulked as necessary after the pin is installed. The ideal installation procedure would be to find a way to extend the pin from the pole after the pole is vertical and in place. A spring at the bottom of the pin hole in the pole would work, but there would be no easy way to demount the piece later.
A 1 1/2" square pole would be adequately stiff, I should think -- or the pole could be in the form of a plate, maybe 1 x 3 or 4 inches, which might promote an easier and more direct attachment of the shelf supports ? That is a separate and interesting problem, for which I can think of a number of more or less elegant solutions, depending on the tools available to you.


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tktoo
(@tktoo)
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Posts: 2300
02/04/2011 11:27 pm  

SDR, good posts (pardon the pun)
I still think the pole dimensions proposed in the OP may be undersized, depending on spacing or width of shelving.
flypat, be sure to try and center the weight of your record collection on the uprights so as not to exert lateral force. Try McMaster-Carr for machine leveling feet that might work at the foor.
http://www.mcmaster.com/


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