Eames PACC with no stamp - is it legit?  

@SynBiscuit  Difficult to say, but mostly the embossed Herman Miller stamp is just at the place where the paper tag is, so the stamp could be covered by the paper tag. 

An advice in my role as cleverclogs: don't buy something "from the other side of the world" if you are not sure about its authenticity.

Yeah I know it's a risk, and one that under most circumstances I wouldn't even consider taking, but the chairs are absolutely perfect for my needs and I've never seen another PACC (with castors) for sale. Not only that, but the price is really good - even including shipping to the UK, the total price would be roughly the same as a later (late 70s to early 80s) arm shell chair with a modern replacement base bought in the UK.

Just from the information I gave and the picture, what's your gut feeling in terms of authenticity? I've attached another photo of all six of the chairs together if that's of any help. It may also be worth noting that the seller also has another set of five PACCs in scruffier condition which he won't split, which are identical to the one I'm looking at in terms of the shell & upholstery colour as well as the manufacture date, so I'd assume that all eleven chairs came from a single location. Again for reference the total cost of the chair including shipping to the UK would be about £450, with potentially another £80-100 on top for customs duty, which doesn't strike me as terrible assuming everything's above board.

@SynBiscuit

As far as I know there are only Vitra versions as replica on the market, with a five-spider base on castors, but maybe I am wrong.

My gut feeling says, ask the seller to take a look under the paper tag, maybe there is a surprise.

Informative page: https://eames.com/en/pac

If you are not pressed for time, then wait for other assessments here in the forum, namely @cdsilva or @leif ericson - Zephyr Renner or @tktoo2

Yeah that was my thinking - it all looks to be in order besides the (potential) absence of an HM stamp, and I can't imagine why anyone would go to the trouble of fabricating fake PAC/PACC bases when they're in so much lower demand than pretty much every other base style out there. That link you posted was my primary source of information when I was reading up about the chairs, since there's comparatively little documentation on them compared to other Eames/HM models!

I'll ask the seller to at least see if he can feel anything through the tag if he doesn't wanna lift it to see what's under it. In your opinion is the price including shipping worth paying, considering the colour combo etc? I'm buying it to use, not as an investment, but obviously knowing I could sell it and make my money back and possibly a little more if I needed to would be reassuring. My income isn't exactly spectacular so £450 would represent a substantial investment on my part, but it'd also be a way of indulging my passion for MCM design with the limited space and funds I have available to me.

@synbiscuit, Yes, they're authentic.

No, a single chair from the set pictured is not worth 450 Pounds, at least not here in New England. Originally, they were almost certainly part of a custom order intended for corporate or institutional use. Save your money for a chair that you really love and have had the opportunity to spend some quality seat time in before purchasing.

FTR, I spent years lusting after an iconic ES670/671 and finally found one locally at a better than reasonable price by sheer coincidence and jumped on it. Great lounge set and in great shape, too. Unfortunately, it turned out to be uncomfortable for me to sit in for longer than a half-hour or so. It's much better suited to someone of, um, lesser dimensions. My lovely roller-of-eyes-whenever-I-carry-my-latest-find-through-the-door, OTOH, finds it very comfy, so we've kept it!

"My lovely roller-of-eyes-whenever-I-carry-my-latest-find-through-the-door, OTOH, finds it very comfy, so we've kept it!"

I know that only too well! 😎 

@tktoo2 thing is, they're only about £250 sans shipping, and pretty much every UK-located chair I've found online is about £350 and up, and that's for a later shell (generally 80s), in worse condition and with a modern, unlicensed base. I guess I could spread the cost by having it shipped to one of my friends stateside and then having them ship it to me in another month or two, but then ultimately I'm still spending the money one way or another. Definitely feels like they're worth more over here because they were nothing like as universally popular as they were in the US - and obviously HM ones are far harder to come by over here than the Vitra ones.

I have been somewhat concerned about not being able to sit in it before I buy it, but I assumed being pretty much a textbook average sized adult (5'10", 175lb-ish) and with the chair being padded & upholstered as opposed to just a fibreglass shell that it'd probably be alright. Unfortunately I live a fair distance from anywhere that would be likely to have an upholstered arm shell to try out, but I'm not in a massive rush and none of the set of six have sold yet, so if I do manage to find one (or even a close copy) to try out then I will.

As I say, it's a shame they're in the US because they fulfil literally all my criteria - a visually appealing vintage chair with arms, ideally on a swivel base with wheels, in a colour which is neutral enough to go with most things but is more interesting than black or white. I'd most likely only be sitting in it for a couple of hours at the most at a time, and I'd be willing to sacrifice some comfort for the sake of style, so I'll have to have a deeper explore of my options and hope and pray nobody buys the full set in the meantime!

@synbiscuit, My advice as far as desk chairs is to buy a used Aeron (with accessory lumbar support). Available in good condition around Boston for under $400US.

City corporate offices are in states of transition lately (pandemic) and many are closing. I'd anticipate a glut of used office furniture and commensurate pricing.

I have used Aerons (my university's recording studio had them in the control room) and they're insanely comfortable, but they don't really fit with the aesthetic I'm going for. I want something that can serve double duty as a general-purpose chair that'll look good in the context of a non-work room as well, which is what drew me to the combination of the upholstered arm shell with the swivel base with castors offered by the PACC. You're right about office spaces downsizing/emptying out, though. Would've been more convenient if I hadn't moved out of London a couple of years ago and/or I drove, but I have enough friends there still to keep me in the loop.

Also, out of curiosity, do you agree with my assessment of which colours the chair is? The seller makes no comment in the listing about it but having looked at eames.com's list of fibreglass colours and some pictures of upholstery pages from HM catalogues from around the time the chair was made it seemed to me like raw umber fibreglass and ochre dark naugahyde were the closest in appearance. Medium grey is also pretty close though, and I couldn't find any old naugahyde documentation which showed the colours besides extremely small, grainy scans, so any help identifying the colour of the upholstery in particular would be appreciated simply to satisfy my own curiosity as well as to potentially get a more accurate grasp on the value of the chair.

Hi. Sorry, I have no clue wether these chairs are legit or not.

However, I agree with Synbiscuit here. 500€/piece seems like a good price for this kind of chairs in Europe.  I haven’t done any serious research, but I believe that prices for Eames chairs are much lower in the US than in Europe (at least here in France) where they are far less common.

To give you an exemple, market price for a vintage DSW in nice condition with unoriginal base is around 350-450€ / piece (and that’s not 1stdibs price but rather CL).

HM ones are super difficult to find over here and as people tend to think Herman Miller is the real deal, they are usually more expensive than Vitra.

OK, folks. I'm obviously suffering from a limited US-centric perspective here but, in my world, that's crazy money for one of the least desirable HM chairs there is. I hate to discourage anyone just starting out from the thrill of acquiring their first piece, so, @synbiscuit, please don't take my opinion as anything more than it is. If you really love the chair enough to spend that amount for shipping an as yet unseen item from overseas, please have at it and I sincerely hope it makes you happy!

P.S. There's a date stamp on the paper 'law label' taped to the underside. I'll guess ca. 1970.

Dear @tktoo2  it seems pretty weird to me to recommend the Aeron design disaster to someone who actually wants to buy a classy PACC chair. Don't you think so?